#115. All You Need to Know About RFM Segmentation | Podcast

Vira: 0:16

Hello everyone, and welcome to email Einstein. Flowium podcast. I’m your host, Vira sadlock, happy to have you guys back. Flowium is one of the fastest growing email marketing agencies in the world, and we specialize in providing a premium, full service e commerce, email marketing experience to all of our clients, delivering the right message to the right person at the right moment. That’s what we do here at volume. That’s what we do best. And today I’m joined by, actually, the guest that you probably know already, Andriy Boychuk. Andriy is our CEO, founder, and actually, you’ve been here quite a few times, but still say hi Andriy. Say a few words.

Andriy: 1:20

Hi Vira, thank you for having me back.

Vira: 1:23

It’s always a pleasure. It’s always fun to have someone from Flowium, someone who understand the jargon, someone who understands the lingo, someone who are as passionate about email marketing as I am. So today’s we’re going to be today, we’re going to be talking about all things segment, right? Andre segmentation, segmentation, or going back to basics, right? Yes, going big, back to basics. And, I mean, if you guys are not ready to Black Friday, Cyber Monday season, you’re probably not alone, because it’s never, I mean, I feel like it’s never too early to start planning for the holidays, especially this year, when we witnessed like a huge surge in online shopping due to all of the changes. And few last year were pretty unique for online shoppers as well, but more than ever, people actually took to the internet in years 2021 for shopping. And as a result, years 20 and 21 were one of the largest years in all times of E commerce. So here are some a few fun facts before we go to before we go and start discussing all of the fun things segmentation. Here are actually some like curious numbers and Andriy, I’m really curious to hear your opinion on that this are just like the predictions that I found on the web. But tell me what you think about it. So I found this numbers that on in the year 2018 e-commerce, like E commerce brands made $9.9 billion during the holiday season, Thanksgiving, plus Black Friday. The next year, it was 11.9 the year after that, like pre pandemic, it was 14.3 and then last year, it was around that, around that numbers as well, around that, like $14 billion in revenue. Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s like, pretty much. That’s the numbers from E commerce. But this year, though, a lot of a lot of people predict that Thanksgiving plus Black Friday, 2022 will actually have 7.4 decrease and like, in revenue, and it will equate to probably like around $13 billion what do you think of that? Do you kind of feel that the change is coming? Can you tell it already? Or do you have your own opinion different from this one?

Andriy: 3:48

I don’t know exactly the percentage or the amount, but it feels like everybody talks about the economy, the price increases for gas logistics. Everything’s going up. So theoretically, people have have less money to spend. So it’s logical, the platform, yeah, it’s possible. But still, we have a such a big growth over the last, what, two, three years that it’s almost double from 2018 correct? So, so I think that the trend in general is positive, even if this this year, it would be lower. So this my opinion.

Vira: 4:33

Yeah, shoppers definitely this year, they will likely be more careful with how they spend their money, right, since we are dealing with like a big inflation at the moment, and the economic crisis and stuff like that. But it doesn’t mean that that we have to put all of those, like E commerce efforts on hold. On a contrary, I think we need to focus even more this year on delivering the right message to the right person at the right moment and delivering the message that is as relevant as possible. And that’s where actually we roll the red carpet for Black Friday Cyber Monday email segmentation. So Andriy tell us a bit about. About this RFM segmentation first of all, what does it mean, and what does it stand for, RFM.

Andriy: 5:24

So RFM segmentation method, RFM stands for recency, frequency and monetary value. So this method was created in 1970s by direct mail marketers, so when they were sending physical mail to people’s to people’s door, to market, to promote either their service or product. And as you can can understand right now, we are sending emails and they cost us close to zero, or like just few cents to send out the emails. However, when you send direct mail, it’s very expensive to send. It might cost 123, $5 per direct mail. So when you send 2000s the amount adds up pretty quickly, right? So this segmentation method was created to target people better and also to save money on on the actual mailers.

Vira: 6:25

That’s pretty cool. That’s pretty cool. I didn’t realize that it started like back in the 70s. And honestly, if those like email emails costed out more, I feel like people would be more more smart about the way they segment their list, because that’s a popular rookie mistake. When someone have a list, when they have like, 1000 people on their list, they’re like, why don’t we bombard them all with the same message, the more people, the more money, the more fun. No, it doesn’t work this way. Unfortunately, we’ve tested it like gazillion times. The better segment that your list is, the better segment that your campaign is, the better revenue you get. And that’s I still can’t like explain it per se, but it works every freaking time.

Andriy: 7:09

And there’s bunch of ways how you can segment your customers, your audience, and actually your imagination is the limit, but this is one of the most popular way to segment your list.

Vira: 7:25

It’s the easiest one, the most logical one, and we kind of discussed it before in our podcast, we talked about it in episode number 29 so go back you guys and listen to that episode. But let’s talk, like, in depth about those, like, quantifiable factors, recency. How can we build segments based on recency and like, what does it mean in the world of E commerce, email marketing?

Andriy: 7:53

So how often do they buy so let’s say we have two customers and one customer spent $2,000 with you, and another customer spend $1,000 with you. So we are based only on that information, which customer is more valuable to you, $2,000 and $1,000.

Vira: 8:17

Well, two grands, obviously.

Andriy: 8:20

Of course. However, if we add another criteria, recency, for example, what the customer who spent $2,000 last time they purchased was two years ago, and customer who spent $1,000 they bought four times during the year, one year. So if, if we add that those criterias, which customer do you believe is more valuable?

Vira: 8:45

Yeah, it’s getting more interesting with a $1,000 guy, because in most cases, the more recently a customer has interacted or like transacted with a brand, the more likely the customer will be, like, responsive to our email marketing efforts, right? It’s like, this is this changes everything, pretty much.

Andriy: 9:06

And as we know that, it’s extremely hard to convert one time buyer to two time buyer and so forth. And in this example, even the person spent $2,000 so this is lifetime value of the customer. In the second example, where we have four different purchases, each purchase like totaling $1,000 we can expect they will make other purchases in the future, because it’s easier to convert them for fifth purchase, sixth purchase and seventh purchase.

Vira: 9:36

Right. So recency is more about like, how much time has elapsed since the customer, like, last visited your website or last had some sort of like activity or transaction with your brand, but frequency is more about like, how many times they purchased Correct, correct. Yes, okay, Andriy so we kind of covered recency, basically how much time has elapsed since the customer placed an order. We kind of covered frequency, meaning like, How often has a customer transacted or, like, interacted with your brand during a particular time or year or whatever. And then, what is monetary like? What is monetary factor?

Andriy: 10:49

It’s how much money customers spend with your brand the easiest way, like, first of all, you need to know what is your average order value as. And in the last two months, we produce a lot of content on YouTube as well. In our blog post about AAVs, defining AAVs, how to improve your EVs, but basically your average order value is like your middle point. And anybody who below that or above that, it’s.

Vira: 11:21

It’s a different group of customers, yes, yes. Which you can segment, you can segment, and you can like, treat, treat them differently, in a way we’re gonna definitely talk about it and then how important it is to like segment those people out. But like, generally speaking, why should we care about like, recency, frequency and like monetary factors, like, how do they help us? What are the benefits of this strategy?

Andriy: 11:48

So main benefits of any segments, not only this segment, but segments in general, is first of all to increase sales revenue, improve marketing and increase customer retention, and also known as decreasing churn rate, if we are able to communicate to the customer the right way, on the on the specific step of their journey, they are more likely to take action which we want them to take, either buy from us, engage with us, Leave us review, or whatever we asking for, so that those are like three main benefits of segmentation?

Vira: 12:31

Yeah, no, definitely. And again, going back to that example, I kid you not. We’ve tested it like so many times when we were sending the content to like, pretty much like a master segment versus the segmented campaign. So the segmented campaign, very similar content delivered like, four times the revenue. And that’s like the example that I showed to my colleagues, and they all were, like, shocked with, like, how the segmentation works. Like, again, I don’t necessarily understand the like, the mechanics behind it, because, like, logically, like, the more people you email, the more people your email will reach, the more revenue it should get. But I assume that it will affect your deliverability as well, meaning that, yes, maybe this time you will deliver, and a lot of people will see your email, but in the future, your deliverability will be heard and your email will end up in like a spam folder or like a promotion folder, and no one will see it at all. So Andriy, how do, how do I go about, like, performing that analysis of that like RFM? Is it like, available to everyone, or do you need some special tools to perform that RFM analysis. How does it work?

Andriy: 13:45

There’s a bunch of videos on YouTube which teach you how to do it on in Excel, there’s formulas, I think anybody can do like in under 10 minutes. However, you can do it only once, so it’s not dynamic. So I personally do not recommend, I believe in something What? What is dynamic. So if you use your email marketing service provider nowadays, almost all of them can do it. Since we exclusively work with Klaviyo, I’ll be giving examples from Klaviyo. There’s two ways how to do it. So first way, we can create bunch of segments and combine them was next time you send in campaign, you can include and exclude some of segments. Or second way you can create automation in Klaviyo, any other platform and which will be applying scores to each customer. And what do I mean by score? So let’s say, let’s say, let’s talk about recency. So let’s say, and we have a score from one to five, and we have to apply a score either 1234, or five to all of our customers. So let’s say, if somebody purchase in the last 30 days, will give them score five. This is the highest score. Is the best score, because they the most recent somebody who placed an order a year or more from now, will give them score of one. So everybody will have, everybody will have score either 1234, or five. So one way to do it, as I said, you can create five segments, this person, place, order at least once, between Day Zero and 29 days or place, order one time, one time, at least once, 365, days. Of like ago, so it’s like a year ago. So you will have those five segments. So this is the first set of data. The next set of data is defining your monetary value, and each business is different. So that’s why I said it’s very important to define your AOV average order value, and your average order value will have number three score three, because it’s in the middle, so average in the middle, and anything which belows that two and one will have lower monetary value, and anything about will have higher monetary value. Same thing, we’re creating five different segments with those definition how much money they spend, what their revenue. The last thing is to create five segments for frequencies. So again, you need to define what is the average number of orders? Let’s say it’s three, just for easy mass so three. So if somebody plays, let’s say between three to five, it’s a score three. Anybody who plays between two and three is score two, and anybody who plays only one order is a score one. So now, when we have those segments, like, I know it’s a little bit a lot, like 15 different segments. You can reduce it if you want. You can do from one to three, like two to have less segments, but five would be better. Like, it’s will be better segmented that list.

Vira: 17:24

So basically, all of this like segments that you assign them, like the number or like the grade, they are all dynamic, meaning that people are, like, moving from one group to another depending on their behavior, right?

Andriy: 17:37

Yes.

Vira: 17:38

Okay, that’s cool.

Andriy: 17:40

So, so this is step number one. Step number two, let’s say we want to target somebody, somebody who has the lowest frequency, which is score number one, and somebody who plays order one year ago or like, even further in the time then, who, let’s say frequency was score number three. So on average, they placed average number of orders, which is score number three. However, they had the the highest score for for monetary value. So it’s the the score they will have 135, so the the lowest frequency, the highest monetary value, and in the middle frequency. So what can we send them?

Vira: 18:29

Yeah, that’s, that’s an that’s an interesting, well, I don’t know. I would think that to get them back, we would need to give them some sort of, like, discount, maybe, like additional discount, because, like, in my world, it’s like easier to convert those people who have higher frequency and bigger like recency or not much time elapsed since the last time they purchased something from us. So to those people, I usually don’t give the discount, but for people who shopped with us, like long time ago, first of all, we need to remind them of who we are, because it’s been like a lot of time has passed, so we probably need to remind them about who we are. Why should they care about us? And then maybe try to win them back with some sort of, like discount that would what I would do. Andriy, what are your thoughts?

Andriy: 19:15

I like what you said, if, if we limiting, limited only to email marketing, I agree 100% with you, and I’ll do the same thing. However, remember, like, email marketing is not one, only one channel you which you can leverage. If those people are like, have a score five for monetary value. I’m not sure exactly how much money they bring, but they are your, let’s say top 1% maybe it’s it’s worth your time to pick up a phone and call them. Or it may be you want to invest $5 in this their service handwritten or Ignite, we interview the guy, yeah, in night post, maybe you want to spend $5 and send them handwritten postcard to win them back, because they already you’re extremely profitable on this. On this client already, it would be cool and beneficial for you to win them back. So this is just one, one example. Let’s talk about 555. Somebody who has highest recency, so they just purchased it in the last 30 days they have frequencies are bigger, so they place the most orders in this short period of time, avid fans, right? Yeah, number five the month value is the highest that client already is doing everything that you want to do, so like discount, unnecessary So, but maybe you can add value. You somehow, somehow else, maybe automatic emails from the founder, like, I don’t know, like, or maybe you can set up the notification to the founder say, hey, this person has a RFM score, 555, maybe, do you want to write them personal email from yourself? Or maybe…

Vira: 21:07

Actually, yeah, remember we were discussing that on one of the conferences, there was this brand called Ministry of Supply. I remember, like they are, like the apparel brand or something, and they have this thing where the best performing customers, or like, the customers who spend the most money with them, the customers who have the more most interaction with them, they get to talk to, like a CEO of the company. They get to have, like, an interview with with him or her. And sometimes they even, like invite them to their company retreats, which is like, super cool, because you get to meet your customer. You get to talk to talk to them. You get to ask all of the important questions about the brand. You You can hear that your opinion, and you can honestly like, thank them for being like, so loyal to your brand. And when I think of this, customers like what we do internally with our email campaigns, sometimes we try to, like, utilize those people to get reviews and user generated content from them, because they are your most loyal fans. They are the people who love you, who want to talk to you, and who would be happy to talk about you. So that’s like, how we utilize this group of of customers. But I like how you sort of like segmented them in this like easy to understand, almost like formula. It’s it’s super cool what you’ve done.

Andriy: 22:27

Yeah, and for those kind of fans, maybe there’s also it’s, you can create something like we created for floating podcast socks, something that you don’t sell, but you can exclusively send it to those customers. They will appreciate. They already love your brand. They are true evangelists, or how it’s called in marketing, they are true evangelist, Ambassador of your brand, so there’s no more convincing, meaning you don’t need to provide them crazy discounts, but something special, or like, create some sticker and send it to them like people will appreciate that a lot.

Vira: 23:06

And you don’t want to train your customers to expect the discount codes from you all the time, no matter, like, what your discount strategy is, people who buy from you without discount code, like, don’t train them to expect something from you all the time. It can be something else. It can be the freebie. It can be maybe, like the bundle offer, or like exclusive early bird access to your new launch, or something like that. It doesn’t have to be the discount, discount, discount, yeah.

Andriy: 23:36

And we just said what, what is possible in terms of campaigns, but also those kind of segments can trigger a flow as well automation.

Vira: 23:48

Like, give me an example.

Andriy: 23:50

You put me on the spot.

Vira: 23:52

Yeah, I do. Give me an example of, okay, say, I want to, I want to target my like, biggest spenders. I want to target people who are, who are, like my biggest, biggest fans. How would I like define those people? What would be the trigger for the flow?

Andriy: 24:11

So there’s bunch of ways how to how you can do it, and probably clever professionals will judge me what I say now, but I mean one way how, from top of my hand, you can trigger by segment if they enter this monetary value five, so the highest monetary value and the Rask and the filter how many orders they made. So if, let’s say, the highest number of order, like score five, they will go for further. And the last thing is recency, if they bought something in the last 30 days. So that flow will be trigger and filter, make sure the other conditions met, and they will receive the email, maybe, maybe what we said before, the automatic email from the founder, text based email.

Vira: 25:05

Yeah, that’s very nice personal touch or review request. That’s a good one too. That’s a good one too.

Andriy: 25:12

Honestly, like, if, if, like, if you want to invest a little bit more time, I would personally create back end flow automation which will assign those scores to customer profiles instead of creating segments.

Vira: 25:31

That’s actually what I was thinking. Because I don’t know if I’m if that issue still exists, but basically, when you trigger the flow based on segment, it doesn’t happen. Right away. As far as like, Klaviyo, like, explained to me, like, the sometimes needs to pass, and sometimes it takes time, but sometimes for that, like, post purchase sequence or something, you want that email to be, like, delivered right away. So, yeah, that’s that’s interesting that you’ve mentioned it actually.

Andriy: 26:01

I mean, if you have a customer, let’s say you have a custom profile properties called RFM, like, 333, fields, and you’re assigning scores, score dynamically. You can go crazy in your abandoned cart. Flow, went back flow, because you are able, yeah, you can, yeah, you are able to create advanced journeys, but also it’s, it’s hard to manage, so I don’t want, I do not recommend for you to go crazy and create, let’s say, five journeys per each flow. But know that it’s possible maybe focus.

Vira: 26:40

Sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes it doesn’t worth it. You know, we’ve tested, like, different approaches, and some sometimes the simplest one works really well. So like, why bother? So it depends, of course, on, like, on your overall strategy. But like, what are your thoughts? And again, it’s, it’s a bit off topic, but some brands are segmenting out people for Black Friday, Cyber Monday based on their based on, like, how much money they spent, like, how many like discount codes they used in the past and like stuff like that, and they give them like, different discount codes. For example, they give like, less of a discount code to VIP customers compared to like those, like win back people. You know, what are your thoughts on that? Are you proud that approach, or do or are you against that approach? Because, like a lot of brands, prefer to be consistent, and just like offer the same discount throughout the Black Friday, Cyber Monday, other are like dividing them into different groups. What are your thoughts?

Andriy: 27:36

Unfortunately, I cannot answer this question without knowing the info. More information. It depends. It depends what what their goal is. Let’s say, if they don’t care much about profit, they just want to sell as much stuff as they want. They can create the biggest discount and just offer to everybody. But if they want to be more profitable, maybe 10% will be enough for loyal customers, return customers, but 20% for time, first time purchasers or somebody who never purchased just to convert them. It’s hard to answer this question, because each brand have different goal. Some brands that they just, even if they break even on the sale, they are happy because they just trying to move inventory during that season.

Vira: 28:25

That’s true. Yeah, there is definitely no one size fits all when it comes to email marketing or to any other marketing, to be honest. But like, if you would summarize, what are the important segments to target for, Black Friday, Cyber Monday based on this RFM model. Like, what are those segments like? How would you sort of like structure the email marketing say for the Sox brand? Let’s go back to good old socks, example. What groups of customers would you target?

Andriy: 28:58

Like for me, anything that where you go beyond number three? It’s too complicated for me, so I’ll probably create three, three scenarios, three group of customers, so maybe the best customers, and instead of giving them discount, maybe offer some something extra, like one of our clients result Each Black Friday, Cyber Monday, they create the wrapping paper.

Vira: 29:26

Yeah, custom paper.

Andriy: 29:28

Custom, yeah and they send it as a gift with any with any purchase, so stuff like that. So this is your first group of customer. Second group of customers, somebody like, very generic. They never purchase from you, or they have a very low score on RFM model. Let’s say one or one or two in each categories. For those, you can just do generic, generic sale, whatever the highest discount you have, 10% 20% 45% and bombard them as much. I mean, during this, during this holiday season.

Vira: 30:08

The middle time when it’s appropriate, yeah.

Andriy: 30:11

Yeah, the middle part, anybody between anybody, like, it was a score three and four. I don’t know if you’re what would you suggest.

Vira: 30:20

Like, for me, those people, they would probably be the same strategy as for the holiday shoppers, or, like those rare customers, I would just, like, send them all to, like, generic, generic discount. But maybe I would be a bit more aggressive with reminders. You know, if I see that customers engage with my emails, maybe I would send them, like, more reminders. And this year we are trying to incorporate some, um. Like, fun, relevant information in those reminders. For example, instead of just sending a reminder saying like hey, Black Friday, Cyber Monday will end in like 24 hours, we’re gonna send reminder plus gift guide saying like Hey. This is the product that you can purchase for, for your mom from our apps website. This is what you can purchase for for your dog, and this is for your dad, or stuff like that, or like, five ways to use this product in 2022, or five makeup trends, or whatever, something like that, just because I know that they will be bombarded with, like, a lot of just like a generic reminders. And we want to provide some sort of value as well, but only to those who engage with our emails. Obviously, we don’t want to send this type of email to person who who doesn’t care about us at all. So that’s, that’s like the biggest difference, I would say, would be for my clients. Anyways, yeah, perfect. And okay, Andriy, I mean, that sounds pretty, pretty cool and pretty impressive, but what are the disadvantages of this model? If there are any? Because, like, I have at least one or two that comes to my mind, like, right away.

Andriy: 31:54

So you start, and if I have any, I’ll add.

Vira: 31:59

It’s it’s more, it’s not even like a disadvantage. Because I do believe this, this this approach is really powerful, but to me, it looks like it’s based on, like a historical method. It looks like it based more on, like, a past customer’s behavior. It may or may not help you accurately indicate the future activities.

Andriy: 32:22

I agree. I mean, nobody knows the future. So the best way to it is.

Vira: 32:27

Kind of does Klaviyo kinda does.

Andriy: 32:30

I 100% agree with you. Klaviyo does, but how does it do it based on the past activities? How does Netflix knows? How does Netflix knows what movie or series to recommend based on the past activities. How? How is your Facebook feed customized based on the things you like?

Vira: 32:55

Yeah, kinda yeah, agree and like the other thing. And you might or might not agree with me that this model, it kinda doesn’t take into account, like other variables that are also like important, like specific product purchased, say, like this person, they’re coming to our store, and they always purchase like this, this particular product. They express the interest in this product. So this model does not take that into account, right? So that’s.

Andriy: 33:26

Yes, I agree. I don’t think any segmentation model is perfect. It’s there’s pros and cons for for each model. This is, this is more generic if you want to be category specific or product specific. Of course, it’s not the right model to use. However, you can use the combination of models. Maybe do RFI model, 5554, again, depends how many subscribers you have. Right now, we’re prospecting client, and they have 2 million, 2 million subscribers, and I’m not sure how many clients. But with that kind of data, you can layer different segmentation methods. You can layer the RFM model plus what product they purchase, what product they viewed from which category, what color it was. You can like layer like 10 different segmentations, and you’ll probably end up with 5000 potential customers. And you can target them.

Vira: 34:27

Yeah, that’s That’s true. It’s like, not fun to be working with those, like, smaller accounts, because you don’t get to segment as much just because, like, when you, when you segment out the majority of people based on their interest. Like, who do you send it to? Sometimes it’s just, like, not worth it when your account is small and actually there is like statistic that something like big accounts that have like, over 200,000 subscribers, they on average, have 133 segments. I remember, I don’t know why I remembered this number, but it was, like, so impressive to be 133 segments. Now, when I think about my clients, we’re, getting there. Actually, it’s, it’s bizarre, like, the bigger client you have, the the more creative you can, you can be. So you guys grow, grow faster. It’s so much fun up there, I’m telling you.

Andriy: 35:15

But if you make a mistake, mistake also a more painful. Like to send one email to 2 million …

Vira: 35:21

It’s true.

Andriy: 35:22

versus like 10,000.

Vira: 35:24

Yeah, yeah, they can cost you a lot. Those like apology emails are fun to make, though, and I know that some brands are actually like utilizing those like apology emails on purpose, just because they create a lot of …

Andriy: 35:39

Sending out apology email for a mistake I didn’t make it yet.

Vira: 35:43

No. You make mistake on purpose and then follow up with like, an apology email right away. Yeah. I mean, I read on some like blog. I don’t know if it’s true or not, or do people really make it on purpose? But yeah.

Andriy: 35:55

I like those emails from wine awesomeness. I still follow them. We had Dale and Logan on the podcast in the first episode. They are two founders, and I like how they exchange emails, and they send out their exchange as a marketing email, so like, hey, Logan. And they like responding, Logan, I said not to send that discount to the customers. I mean, it’s like fun and cool, and they always send as a tax tax base. And it actually email Trad, so you don’t even see the unsubscribe, because it’s, like, very long email.

Vira: 36:30

Oh, that’s so funny, yeah, I don’t remember them using that example. It’s so funny. I should try it. I should try it with one of my clients.

Andriy: 36:39

Yeah, but like, if you subscribe, they send crazy number of emails, I believe five per day. Oh, yeah, yeah. Until you buy, if you you buy, they slow down.

Vira: 36:52

You’re on your own, pal, now you’re on your own. Oh, that’s so cool. Well, thank you so much. Andriy that was a very educational episode, for sure, and we will implement a lot of those stuff and in our Black Friday Cyber Monday strategy. By the way, you guys, if you haven’t started preparing for Black Friday Cyber Monday yet, or even if you have but you need some inspiration or something, go and check out our Black Friday Cyber Monday Holiday Email Marketing Guide. Normally, we sell it on Amazon, but right now it’s free. You can go to flowium.com/holiday, and you can get it. It’s like a physical, physical book. This is basically the Bible of email marketing, if I may say so, because all of the knowledge that we gathered as a as a team, Andriy poured into that book, and you get to have all of the strategies pretty much in one place. It’s a pretty cool book. It I might I might be biased, but I think it’s pretty cool. So go and check it out at flowium.com/holiday. That’s a good one.

Andriy: 38:02

It’s hard to compare, because there is no such a book exists to compare it.

Vira: 38:07

Who cares? That’s why we’re the best, you guys. We are the first one – we are the best one. That was fun, Andriy, thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming. Yeah, you’ll be back very soon. I have a feeling. So thank you so much. Talk to you next week, guys, take care. Bye.