#29. 4 Golden Rules Of Effective Segmentation In 2021 | Podcast

Vira: 0:16

Technologies might change, you might be using different platforms, you can be in different industries, businesses can be different. But this four golden fundamental rules of email marketing segmentation will always be relevant and they will always stay the same.

Alissa: 0:54

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Email Einstein. Vira and Alissa, here we are, two email marketers at an email marketing agency called Flowium. We are so passionate about email marketing and because we love what we do, we want to share our insights with you. Flowium, the company that we work for, is one of the fastest growing email marketing agencies in the world. We specialize in providing a premium, full service e commerce email marketing experience for every single one of our clients. Our service is tailored specifically for your business and is designed to help increase your online retail revenue by 20 to 50%. We deliver the right message to the right person at the right moment and that’s what we’re all about. And today’s episode is jam packed with so much information. So Vira, kick it off for us.

Vira: 1:41

Hi everyone. Well, I want to start this this episode with a lame dad joke if you allow me. I started googling them and I’m like, wow, there is a bunch of marketing dad jokes if you didn’t know. So Alissa, why don’t email marketers like trampolines?

Alissa: 1:59

Why?

Vira: 2:00

Because they are scared of high bounce rates. So cheesy. I just told this. I just told this joke to my husband. He was not impressed. I’m glad you liked it, my fellow email marketing marketing nerd.

Alissa: 2:17

Right? It’s only us that would laugh at something like that as well.

Vira: 2:21

I’m totally posting it in our Slack channel for everyone. I’m sure a lot of people will like it. I’m glad I found my tribe. In all seriousness, high bounce rate is actually something that we as marketers, we want to avoid at all costs. And segmenting your list properly is powerful when it comes to delivering the right message to right person at the right time and eventually converting that person. And segmenting your email list can help you be more relevant. It can allow you talking to your customers in their language, giving them the information that they actually want at the best possible time, at the best possible moment and we partially covered it in episode number six which feels like forever ago, but today we’ll actually just gonna get down to the nuts and balls of effective segmentation like basic principles, right? And that said, figuring out the best way to segment your email marketing list can be difficult, especially considering how fast everything changes in the email marketing space these days. And when you look at things from a broader perspective, however, some fundamentals of email marketing segmentation, they have been tried and tested. They have withstood the test of the time. And these are the principles that we will be sharing with you today. Yeah, technologies might change, you might be using different platforms, you can be in different industries, businesses can be different. But this four golden fundamental rules of email marketing segmentation will always be relevant and they will always stay the same. So here are they. Rule number one or principle number one is that segmentation is no longer optional.

Alissa: 4:26

Yeah, absolutely.

Vira: 4:27

Do you think it’s a good start of the podcast? I think it’s a very promising start of the podcast, yeah. Segmentation is no no longer optional in 2021. By now most marketers probably understand the importance of email marketing. And spoiler alert, no, email marketing is not dying in the wake of social media. And yes, the average return on investment through email marketing is still $38 for every $1 spent. So yes, marketers do understand the value of email marketing, but yet a lot of them don’t understand the power of segmenting your list properly. And what they do, they just with minimal efforts, they are blasting the emails to their entire list with minimal efforts. And believe me, the minimal efforts shows. And if you are not slicing and dicing your email database into like various segments and tailoring the content for your specific different audiences, believe me, you are missing out on a lot of revenue and a lot of opportunities. Because as we Already mentioned in 2021, segmentation is no longer optional. Here’s the reality. Most businesses, whether it’s B2B or B2C, they don’t can cater to just one type of customers. They don’t. Even if you are only selling, I don’t know, like one product or one service, if you look to your list closely, you will realize that there is no one size fits all customer. Although it would be super convenient and usually there are several ideal Customers for any given business. Even if you’re selling, I don’t know, like one product, if you are selling say one pet supplements for dogs, maybe a bigger dog will need like, I don’t know, like two portions per day and the smaller animal will need only one. And based on that, the average order value will change from customer to customer. Based on that, the recency will change as well. So you need to look closely into your list and understand who are those people who are your ideal customers. And if you’re doing some email marketing to this like different target customers, blanketing them with like the same broad message isn’t ideal. And this is where actually email segmentation comes into picture. We like to think about email marketing segmentation as an art of viewing your customers in group. So you are slicing your email list into segments based on what you know about each user. So who are they, what they are purchasing, behavior as like so like how often do they purchase, what do they purchase, how familiar are they with your brand, how often do they open your emails, how often do they click through how much money they are willing to spend on your products and stuff like that. And believe me, when you slice and dice you your list correctly, the payoff can be huge. According to Mailchimp, the open rates of segmented list is almost 91, 9% higher than non segmented lists. And click through rates are 22% better. Oh, and my favorite number, marketers who segment campaigns properly can see as much as 760% increase in revenue.

Alissa: 7:47

Yeah, we’ve talked about that stat. Yeah, which is crazy.

Vira: 7:51

This numbers, they amaze me every time I read them and I and I see those numbers like with my personal clients, but those numbers amaze me every time. And once in a while we are doing this thing when we are sending the campaign to entire master list just maybe like once a month or once a few months just to try to re engage some of the unengaged customers. And I’m always shocked of how low the revenue is because you’re basically sending it to like, I don’t know, to like 10,000, 20,000, 100,000 people. And the revenue is, is lower than when you are sending the same campaign but just a small segment. And I did not necessarily understand at the beginning how it works, but believe me, you want to slice and dice your list to make sure that your customers will at least see your email, that you will not end up in like a spam folder or something. In fact, the better your segments, the higher conversion is. So here are some fun facts from Klaviyo portal. So on average companies with annual revenue under 100k in 2016 and again this data is like 4, 4 years old. I’m sure this numbers are even higher now. So back in 2016 they had around 13.3 segments. Brands with annual revenue of 100k to 1 million had 29 segments and companies with 1 million revenue to 10 million revenue had 43 segments. Meanwhile, the big dogs of the E Commerce with more than 10 million revenue in 2016, they had an average of 133 segments. So the better you understand your list, more effective you are with your segments. Obviously your revenues will be better as well. And it may be tempting to think that if you email enough people, you may bring it enough revenue to make up for the decrease in open rates. But hey, in the world of email marketing, this is not how it works. If you are blasting your email to your entire list, be careful because you can damage your click through rates, your open rates, revenue per recipient, and eventually your sender’s reputation as well. So again, going back to rule number one, rule number one, segmentation is no longer optional. No matter how big or small your business is, no matter how many products you have, what your revenue is, segmentation is not optional. So think about it, create at least some basic segments and in rules number two, three and four, we’ll cover some of the basic like strategies on how you can do that. So Alissa, you can take it from there. I know you have a lot of useful and fun and advanced segmentation tips. So what are they?

Alissa: 10:26

I really love today’s episode because we’ve kind of like structured it in a way where it’s like, hey listen, this isn’t optional, but we’re gonna give you some really practical steps to actually implement what is no longer optional. So I’m really excited about these kinds of rules, the rules that we’ve kind of set up for today. So for today’s second rule, rule number two is to know your audience. And if you don’t actually yet know your audience, I’m going to go through some segment ideas in order for you to get to know your audience. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to focus more on the core marketing audience as well as the segments that have win back opportunities. Because as we’ve mentioned before, it will cost you way less money to win a customer back than it will to acquire a brand new customer. So what I’ll do is I’ll go through and I’ll explain kind of each segment that we sort of laid out for today and the best kinds of campaigns to send to these segments. And then just as a note, I’ll use kind of some generic terms like recently purchased or frequently purchased or high overall value for a customer or low overall value. Just as a note, Vira and I, we can’t dictate what these terms actually mean for you because each brand is different. So what actually makes sense for what you sell and not what everyone else sells. So, for example, if you sell couches, it’s pretty unreasonable for you to think that customers are going to purchase a leather couch from you every month. So you know, what’s frequent for one brand is not frequent for the other and vice versa. So just make sure that you use figures that make sense. Where you start thinking about figures or what figures will make sense as we kind of go through these different groups that have different segments in them. So I’ll go over two and then Vira will go over two in the next rule. So for your core marketing audience, these are people that you’re going to spend probably about 75% of your time focusing on. There are six segments that you can actually create. You can go way more into depth, but again, this is just like the absolute basics of what you can create. And you can kind of name them whatever we want. We’ve gone with a name with these names based on what kind of sounds fun and then also with a little inspiration from. From Klaviyo. So the first segment is called high rollers. These are the customers that have recently purchased with you. They frequently purchase with you, and they have a high overall lifetime value. You are going to spend a huge amount of time nurturing these people because they provide and bring so much value to your brand. These people are also probably your VIP customers. If you’re not just going to go ahead and this segment, VIP customers and what you want to spend a lot of time doing with these people, the kind of campaigns that you want to send to them is retention campaigns. So making sure that you’re retaining these people in the high roller segment and also leveraging these people by providing perks, exclusivity, and also probably trying to get some referrals from them. So these are your big dogs. These are your big customers that like, they walk into your store and you’re going to offer them a glass of Prosecco or a cup of coffee, whereas you may not necessarily do that with other customers. So that’s the first. Your next segment is potential high rollers. So these are people that have the potential to become a high roller, but haven’t quite reached it yet. They’ve recently purchased from you. They don’t purchase frequently, which is the big. The big game changer between high rollers and potentials, but they also have a high overall value. So the name of the game here within this segment is to increase the purchase frequency so they become high rollers. But really, how do you do that? What you would do is focus on the items that these people are interested in or have shown interest in. And when new colors, sizes, versions are launched of whatever it is that they’ve purchased or shown interest in before you send them a campaign, or when similar items are back in stock, you send them a campaign. And I would also strongly recommend taking some time to tease the perks that they could have if they became high rollers. So showing them what could change or what about their experience with you could be better if they did become the high rollers that they have the potential to become. So that’s your second segment. The next is brand enthusiasts. So we really like these customers because they’re enthusiastic about your brand as per the name, but we would love them even more if they spent a little more money with us. So these people have recently purchased. They frequently purchased, but their overall value is a lot lower than the high rollers. And this isn’t a bad thing because we love loyal customers. That’s something that we’re really, really focused on a lot of the time. And there’s no doubt that these kinds of customers are loyal. However, it would be really nice to see that overall value. So our goal here is to increase the average order value for these subscribers. So sending them campaigns that promote related products to what they’ve been purchasing, upselling better versions of products that they’ve purchased, or providing a volume discount is probably the best way to go. So forcing them or kind of encouraging them to spend a little more money, but they’re getting some kind of discount for spending a little more money. So Instead of buying one bra, for example, for $30, they can get three for $80. So they’re basically cutting. They’re saving $10 by purchasing the three, but it’s increasing their order value right off the bat. Costco does this really nicely, just as an example. So that’s your third segment. So your fourth is potential enthusiasts. Have you noticed kind of like a trend that we’re going through here as we go through. So these customers have purchased recently, but they don’t purchase frequently, and they also have a lower overall value. Okay, but for These customers, what we really want to do is we want to increase their frequency. So we want to slowly get your customer segments up a sort of ladder until they reach that high roller, which is the ultimate kind of goal. So for the potential enthusiasts, what you want to do is you want to send them information about best sellers, other products related to what they’ve recently purchased and make them real enthusiasts to work them up to the top. So we want to make sure that that frequency gets up there. And then once that frequency gets up there, then we focus on the higher overall value of that customer. And then the last two segments, they’re actually quite interesting because they focus on recent customers that you’ve yet to kind of figure out a pattern with. So some are kind of frequent customers, which turns them into nearly theirs, and then others are not so frequent customers, which makes them waiting for wows. And kind of the differentiator between the two is that nearly theirs are people who are interested and they buy, but they’re not really committed. And with the waiting for wows, they are literally just waiting for amazing deals in order to make a purchase. So both of these segments of customers need to be pushed over the line. So in this instance, it’s really important to sell the value of your brand and products to these customers so they can move into a more committed relationship with you and your brand. And again, these are the customers that you want to save your best discounts for as an attempt to push them over the line. So a lot of brands that we’ve seen kind of go very discount happy and they’re like 50% off, 40% off, this percent off, that percent off. But what you want to do is a, you don’t want to train your customers to wait for discounts and B, you want to save those special discounts for special segments of people so that you can really target them and then get them to actually or activate them into your brand. That’s your core marketing audience that you’re going to be focusing on probably about 75% of the time. Then we hit the other kind of, well, the other, like about 20% of your time. You have to focus on win backs. This is every client’s favorite. Vira, I don’t know about you, but whenever we get a new client, their biggest thing is like yeah, yeah, yeah, VIPs. Yeah, yeah, the engage. What about the people that haven’t bought with us in a long time?

Vira: 18:25

Every time.

Alissa: 18:27

And I’m like, ah, I understand. But also you have to nurture the client base. That you have already. Because if you don’t, you start losing people and then you’re focusing on your time on win backs. It gets kind of all upside down. So win backs are customers that you used to rely on, but now they’re gone. They used to be really committed to you and now they’re gone. So in the win back kind of realm, we’re trying to mend a kind of broken relationship. They forgot about you, but you just can’t let them go. It’s kind of like that annoying ex that texts you whenever you’re about to get over them. And then they text you and you’re like, but wait, maybe I have a chance. I feel like I’m turning email marketing into a soap opera. But there are really only two types of win backs that you should spend any of your time on at all and everyone else. It’s not that they’re irrelevant. Vira will kind of get into that and the next rule. But these are the two types that you should really, really primarily focus on. So they’re both used to be. One is the used to be high rollers and the used to be enthusiasts. So what is the difference and how do we actually approach each? So for the ex high rollers, they haven’t bought with you in a while, but when they did, they were very frequently buying with you and their overall value was very high. So these are the customers that you are literally diving in headfirst to win back because they provided your company with the most overall, not only based on their spending habits, but because they were willing to bring you the referrals too. So for these people, you want to send them new and improved special offers and you are going to do literally whatever it takes to get these people back into the fold. So these, the ex high rollers, I would say, are probably the people that you’re going to be saving your absolute, ultimately best, best, best discounts for, even when it comes to your core marketing audience as well. Because these people, once they come back, they’ll be high rollers again, because that was the behavior that they showed previously. You’re just increasing that high roller segment, which is huge for your company. And then on the other side, you have the ex enthusiasts. So these people also haven’t bought with you in a while, but when they did, they were very frequent and their value was low. But just because their overall value was low does not mean that they weren’t important. However, they weren’t high rollers, so you should really treat them a bit differently than you do your ex high rollers and the ex enthusiasts. This is a really great segment for you to test some win back strategies that you think may work. Make sure that you take the time to experiment with this group. But again, don’t go too crazy because you don’t want to waste your best offers on the segment that’s second best. And I know that sounds kind of harsh, but that’s showbiz baby. So make sure that you’re just strategic around what you’re offering to these people as you try to win them back. And again, like I mentioned before, there are two other major groups of subscribers on your list that we’ll discuss today. But I will let Vira take that on in rule number three as these are the troublemakers and she’s better with dealing with troublemakers than I am. So as a reminder, rule number two, make sure that you know your audience.

Vira: 21:28

Yeah, and rule number three is actually the good one, my favorite one. I love troublemakers. So those who do nothing do harm. And to be honest, we copied this rule from Klaviyo directly because I couldn’t have said it better. We completely agree that those people who are on your list and they just sit there and do nothing, they do harm. Well, email providers care a lot about user experience. Well, not just email providers. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. Whatever platform you’re using, if users are not engaging with your content, it’s like a red flag for the system. The system automatically thinks that you are not relevant and probably you are not for those customers who are not engaging with you. And the system automatically lowers your sentiment. So basically this email providers, they will do whatever possible to weed you out as a sender. And that’s why oftentimes people end up in spam folders, in promotion folders and stuff like that. And being proactive with that group of customers, being proactive with your unengaged customers is basically a must, an essential part of any successful email marketing strategy. And unfortunately I’ve seen it a lot with our clients. With other clients. Usually people come to you with this issue often time. By the time they discover that they have some issue with their email hygiene or with their sender’s reputation, it’s generally too late. You have already damaged your sender’s reputation, you have already wasted resources, you have already done a damage to your overall branding. And that’s when people come to us oftentimes asking for help, you know, and actually that’s unfortunately that’s true. But here are some fun or actually not so fun numbers. According to research by return path, 79% of emails worldwide found their way to their target inbox in the last year. And that’s, that’s like a good, good statistic. But 13% of those email ended up in junk folders. 13% is a lot if you ask me. And out of all that 13%, only 1%, only 1% of them found their way back into users inbox. So like if you are in a spam folder it is super, super hard to get out of there. That’s a sad statistic if you ask me. But here’s another important data that you should be aware of and you should understand marketing. Sherpa reports that on average marketing like marketers lose 25 to 30% of their email list each year. And that’s like a completely natural cycle. So be aware of those like 30% of your list that will become uninterested in you if you will not be like interacting with them or if you will not be specifically creating content targeted for them. Therefore, list retention should be an absolute must for all of the marketers and two groups that are the hardest to work with. Klaviyo calls them caution and avoid. So there are two big groups and Alissa partially mentioned them and we call them using with caution and avoid. So those users that you have to be cautious with, these are the users that in the past somehow connected with your brand. They might have even purchased from you or they open your email, they clicked your email, but they have lapsed. So they are very similar to that group that Alissa to winbacks that you’ve discussed. But in this case they are even more unengaged if I can say so. So you have to spend approximately 5% of your overall time on those guys. Yes, you can still possibly recover them, but don’t have too much hope. You still have to do whatever you can. But these are not your big earners. So there are three big groups of these lapsed customers. So the first group is a one hit wonders. So these are the people who came to your website once, they placed a big order, the high value order, and then, then they disappeared and you’ve never heard of them before. So we call them one hit wonders. Now the next big group is just passing throughs. So these are the people who have maybe placed an order with you one time, but that order was a low value and they do not open any emails from you frequently. They have lapsed a long time ago. And there is another group, we call them false starts. So these are the people who have lapsed in the past they have never placed any order with you, but they were opening a lot of emails from you at one point. So all these three groups of people, you can still bring them back to life if you put some efforts into it, but don’t focus too, too much on them. Maybe create a few campaigns specifically targeted to those people. And specifically those campaigns should specifically fit their needs. Be very careful that the content should be super relevant for these people because they are not your ride or die fan that will be happy to receive anything from you. You have to be very, very specific with these people. Now the last batch are people we want to avoid completely. We want to spend zero time on them. This is like a red zone of email marketing and these people bring us nothing but trouble. We call them avoids. So these folks, they might have come to your list through different, different mysterious ways. Maybe they got into your list through giveaway or sweep takes. Or maybe someone got the list from somewhere and that’s something that we don’t recommend to do. We hate working with clients who got the list from somewhere AKA purchased it from somewhere. This is never a good idea. But these people, if they are on your list, you have to be super careful with them and you have to, you spend zero time emailing them. So these are the people who we don’t want to be sending to. They are your dead weight that you want to just cut out. So who are these people? Again, people who came to you through different resources like giveaways and stuff like that and who received an open, who opened and clicked on zero emails from you. Your heart bounces as well. You have to avoid them. A hard bounce is basically it occurs when and the email cannot be delivered due to some like technical permanent reasons like person used the fake email to enter into your giveaway or stuff like that. Or maybe that email does not exist anymore. Or maybe the email was misspelled. So Klaviyo. I know for sure about Klaviyo that they will suppress those accounts automatically. But for other email marketing platforms, not all of the platforms are doing that. So if your platform is not doing that and make sure to maybe set yourself a recurring reminder to do it monthly. So hard bounces, make sure to suppress them. Soft bounces. Soft bounce is very similar but it is usually caused by like temporary reasons such as like full inbox or maybe a recipient email server is down for a moment but it will be back soon or stuff like that. And when you send and get a soft bounces like many times times, let’s say if you’re Getting it five, six, seven times in a row or something. The platforms like Klaviyo will recognize it and they will sort of like suppress those profiles as well. But again, if your platform is not doing that, make sure to do that manually because as we already know from rule number three, those who do nothing do harm. Another group of people that you should be careful with as people who opened and clicked email 0times in the last year and in 365 days. Obviously these people don’t want to hear from you. Why bother? Why sending them any communication whatsoever and damaging your own reputation. Maybe it’s better to focus on those who you can still sort of like recover. And obviously people who complains that you are a spammer. People who complains that you are sending the spammy emails. In most platforms they will be automatically suppressed in Klaviyo. But if your platform is not doing that, be super careful with that. You don’t want to be sending another email to person who just reported that you are a spammer. Yeah, so spam traps is another big one and I think we partially covered it before. But we’ll be talking about all of these things in our episode that is coming very very soon about the list hygiene. So yeah, so be careful with those avoids. Make sure to suppress or delete those profiles. The big difference to understand between suppressing and deleting. When you are suppressing the profiles in platforms like Klaviyo, the system keeps their data inside of Klaviyo but no emails can be sent to those suppressed profiles. So meanwhile the deleting profiles removes all the data completely. So think twice before you want to delete those contacts. Because in platforms like Klaviyo you are not paying for suppressed accounts. So for the sake of having the data about that person we recommend suppressing and not deleting. But hey, it’s your decision after all. But the big thing is with both avoids and use caution is that you have to be very careful with them and do not ignore those people. Do not send them emails, but do not ignore them either. Those who do nothing do harm. So keep that in mind and and spend approximately 5% of all of your email marketing efforts and time on those folks.

Alissa: 31:06

Yeah, I love that. Those who do nothing do harm. It’s true. It’s very, very true. Okay, for rule number four we called it a little planning goes a long way. And this one will kind of keep short and sweet and to the point because it’s pretty self explanatory. And also we’ve just given you guys, so much information to think about. You’ll probably have to, to listen, listen back, especially to rules number two and three, just so then that way you can make notes and kind of start to strategize. But I also feel like my head is spinning with everything that I can actually implement for clients. But the biggest thing here to remember is you need to make a plan when it comes to segmentation, and then also the campaigns that you’re going to be sending out on a weekly, monthly, bi, monthly, whatever it is, basis. It’s so frustrating to me and Vira, I’m sure you feel the same way. When we see brands with, with so much potential, they have so much content, so many customers, so many subscribers, so many things going on, and they have all the potential in the world to do this really well. But then they’re building the plane as it’s flying and obviously things don’t always go as expected, as 2020 taught all of us. But it’s so much better and so much easier for you to be altering a plan that you already previously created rather than starting from scratch in the very last minute. So every quarter, really make sure that you have an idea of what your company’s direction is for that next quarter. Are you guys launching new products? Are you running any sales, are you rolling out any new programs, like a loyalty or referral program? And once you have a fair idea of what’s coming in that next quarter, plan out a campaign strategy that will target, in order from most to least important, each segment that we’ve talked about today or each group of people that we’ve talked about today. You could really make five different versions of the same exact campaign or the same exact email that will just properly address the segment that you’re sending to, which is something that I personally honestly do with a lot of my clients. We’ll create one kind of campaign idea and we’ll replicate it over and over and over again. But it changes from segment to segment that we send to. And you want to get granular and you want to get really specific about the wording, the imagery, how you’re, how you’re presenting that campaign to these different segments. We say this every single week in our intro. Successful email marketing is all about sending the right message to the right person at the right moment, which is why we’ve talked about segmentation in the past. We’ll continue to talk about it in the future, and that’s why we try to get more and more specific every time we talk about it on an episode. Because These are all super important tools for you to apply, and if you don’t apply them, you’re missing out on a lot of revenue that you can be generating. And you’re also missing out on creating a serious loyal customer base of people that are gonna just continue to refer you and help you continue to grow your brand. So make sure that you’re mindful and intentional with your campaigns and who you’re sending them to. Just general blasting, it’s not gonna cut it anymore, and it hasn’t cut it for a really, really long time. So please make sure that you plan ahead of time so you can target your audience properly. Your customers will thank you for recognizing who they are and what their habits are when it comes to your brand. And again, your brand is gonna grow. I, I mean, sky’s the limit, you know, so why wouldn’t you want to see your brand grow and skyrocket versus just taking the easy way out and just e blasting everyone the same thing? It’s just, it’s. It’s a foolish practice and it would be very wise as a brand for you to really take some time to think about who you’re sending these messages to and what they want to hear based on the behaviors that you see. So again, rule number four, a little planning goes a long way and it will go the longest, longest way ever. So make sure that you take the segmentation to heart. Guys, thank you so much for listening today. Again, as I mentioned before, really important for you to listen to this again and again and again. So then that way you can really start to get the segmentation practices kind of embedded in your minds and then you can apply them moving forward. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure that you subscribe and share this podcast with your friends. Anyone that you know that’s kind of in the e commerce world or needs help with email marketing. This. This is a really great podcast for them to start off with. And then just as a note, if you do want to get involved in a community of other email marketers, other people who are going to be giving advice and tips and suggestions, asking really good questions, other email marketing nerds like myself and Vira, make sure that you join at flowium.com/community. It’s just a great forum to be part of. So then that way you can just be interactive and engaging with other people who are in the same boat as you. So make sure that you check it out.

Vira: 35:39

And make sure to come back next week because we have prepared a really cool episode about the preference pages or unsubscribe pages, how many people call them. So this episode is very important because it’s another way to help you out with all of your unsubscribe rates and with all of the people that you can technically get back to your system. And while a user finding themselves on your unsubscribe page can be a very, very scary thing, and it even may seem like a lost cause for you, in reality, there is still a chance that you can change your customer’s mind with the fun unsubscribe page with witty humor, with great branding, and with giving them different options with giving them options to customize their email preference preferences and their overall brand experience. So come back next week. We are super excited about next episode and thank you again for listening to us. We are super happy to be creating this content for you guys. If you have anything you’d like us to talk about specifically, just message us and we’ll be happy to address your questions and the topics that are interesting to you in our podcast. Thanks so much.

Alissa: 36:54

Thank you guys. See you next week.

Vira: 36:56

See you next week. Bye.