#172. BFCM Conversion Secrets: Unleashing Strategies and Irresistible Offers | Podcast

Vira: 0:41

Hello, hello everyone, and welcome back to Email Einstein, the podcast by Flowium. I’m your host, Vira Sadlak. I’m joined by My co-host, Andriy Borchuk. Andriy, say hi.

Andriy: 0:53

Hi. I don’t know why, but I’m like now trying to say my name myself because people sometimes just like screwing things up. Even my older daughter, when she talks to me in Ukrainian, she say it correctly. But when she said my first name in English, it’s like always like I’m saying like, it’s not my name.

Vira: 1:11

Like, it’s hard to pronounce your name, especially your last name in English for some reason. I do pronounce it differently in like 2 different languages.

Andriy: 1:19

Actually, like, I’m My daughter has— older daughter has hard time in the high school— sorry, high school— in the school because kids are teasing her because it’s like boy chalk, you know, like, and sometimes she cries and I’m like, I mean, now she’s good, but I was explaining her like, we don’t pronounce it this way. We are Ukrainian and we don’t have such a meaning in Ukraine. It’s just like kids, you know.

Andrea: 1:46

Yeah, kids will find anything.

Vira: 1:48

Kids can be weird.

Andrea: 1:50

Yes.

Vira: 1:50

Well, another person that is joining us today, and you guys know her and love her, Andrea Pohlmann. Andrea, welcome back. We’re so happy to have you. Andrea is our— Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Andrea: 2:07

No, it’s my favorite time of the year. I just love being here at Black Friday. That’s my move.

Andriy: 2:11

Anytime we mention Andrea on any of our social media and our engagement goes through the roof, our impressions, comments, likes. So it’s like, we love you to have on a podcast and all social media.

Vira: 2:27

For those of you who don’t know who Andrea is, she’s our lead strategist. She’s been on our podcast. And today she’s going to be sharing her wisdom about different discount code strategies, different like incentive strategies, specifically for Black Friday, Cyber Monday season. That’s like my favorite topic of the year, because I know there’s like a lot of things that we can share and that that you can probably learn, a lot of things that we can learn from you. And you guys, a few days ago, I found this really funny tweet. Or should I say X? I don’t know. Is it tweet or is it X? I don’t know.

Andrea: 3:00

I think we still call them tweets. I don’t really know. Tweet.

Vira: 3:03

Okay, tweet. I’m going to stick to tweet. I’m still not very good with using the new name, but I found this really fun tweet and it said, why don’t grocery stores participate in Black Friday? I don’t need 20% off flat screen. Give me half-price Tide Pods and $1 coffee creamers, and then you better believe I’ll be there at the doors at 3:00 a.m. What do you guys think of this?

Andrea: 3:25

Banging on the door at 3: 00 a.m. for cheaper coffee? Absolutely.

Vira: 3:31

Have you guys ever been at the door at 3: 00 a.m. for Black Friday?

Andriy: 3:35

No.

Vira: 3:36

Ever? Like, in your life, did you have this experience?

Andrea: 3:38

Okay, in fairness, not 3: 00 a.m., but I definitely have been an arrive at 6: 00 a.m. before the store opens and sit in my car kind of gal, for sure. I love a sale. To be fair.

Andriy: 3:49

Yeah, I was once in my lifetime. There’s like outlets, um, still until now I don’t understand the difference, but there’s like not malls but outlets. Anyway, so, uh, it was 2-hour drive north in New York, and I was not there at 6: 00 AM, but I was in the morning, probably 8, 9, where stores were open. But I was waiting in lines to get to any of the stores. It was just like Any store you want to go, there’s a line like for a roller coaster. And sometimes you stay there for an hour, like to go to Armani Exchange or some other brand.

Andrea: 4:25

Yeah.

Vira: 4:27

Right. And you can’t buy the VIP pass to like go through the line like in Disney World, right? I wish. I wish they had fast lanes for that. No, I mean, I’ve done it once. The first year I came to Canada, it was like 2014 or something. I heard a lot about this. like Black Friday, Cyber Monday craziness. So I’ve done that and I purchased something like phone case or something. I didn’t even need to be there.

Andriy: 4:51

But Vira, I love your analogy because you kind of just, let’s, as an idea, you know, like you can purchase some kind of VIP pass for e-commerce. You don’t have to wake up in the morning or like be the first one to buy. You have VIP access for that.

Vira: 5:09

Or Andriy.

Andriy: 5:10

Yeah.

Vira: 5:11

Or, and it’s completely crazy, completely like new idea. No one ever done it before. You can shop online.

Andriy: 5:17

That’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I’m saying shopping online, shopping online, but you, you, you, you buying for $20, $50, advanced access to all the kind of deals and you don’t have to chase it.

Andrea: 5:33

I’ve actually advised all of my clients this year to do a VIP strategy that like if someone has a certain threshold of lifetime value, That we give them early access to the Black Friday sale, but charging for it, that’s an interesting one.

Vira: 5:48

It’s a completely different—

Andriy: 5:48

It’s like fast lane. Like everybody understands the fast lane. Everybody like likes to pay it. But again, this is just something. Listen, you’re like, start this podcast because like you will probably, it would be hard to stop 2 of A’s here.

Vira: 6:08

Let’s do this. Let’s do this. Yeah. Let’s start from the basics. Andrea, I know you prepared this like this huge list of different promotions and ideas. Let’s start from the basics. Good old flat discount sale, percentage or dollar. Is it still sexy? Is it still in? Do still people like these discount codes or do we need to be more creative this year?

Andrea: 6:34

I think that people still like them because I think depending on the number of SKUs in your store and how complex you want your offer to be, I think a flat rate discount, whether it’s a dollar amount or a percentage amount, is still effective. Do I think it’s the sexiest option? No. Do I think it’s the most fun option? No. Do I think it will still drive sales? Absolutely. So like, if at your baseline, you’re like, I just don’t have time to come up with the like cleverest discount in the world, I’m just going to give a flat discount for Black Friday, Cyber Monday, I think it still will drive conversions and you still will get sales. And I think that there’s a lot of interesting ways that you can do it. One of the things that I’ve been advising is doing a different discount or a different code for Black Friday versus Cyber Monday. So splitting them up into 2 separate discounts so that you’re creating the idea of like, yes, we missed out on this previous code, but there’s still a code that we can use. So that’s like my way of making it a little bit more interesting or a little bit more, I guess, like enticing to the audience. But I would say that it still works.

Andriy: 7:38

So now we are talking about this. I mean, because the previous episode we had all about discounts, it was weird, but those were evergreen discounts. Now we’re talking about only Cyber Black Friday, Cyber Monday deal. But question for you, Andrea. Okay, so we have, let’s say, crazy offer, 50% off on Black Friday, Cyber Monday. What can you offer on Cyber Monday that people don’t feel upset or it’s like, doesn’t look the same kind of like 49% or 51%?

Andrea: 8:10

So I would do 51%. But I think 49% is also very interesting because you missed out. So now it’s like 1% less.

Andriy: 8:19

Like, I think that would be like kind of a cool way to do it. I like what you just said, because 51%, I would feel upset that like, come on, like, why are you giving like, I already purchased? Because I just had this experience, unfortunately, with Ukrainian brand, not brand, it’s a concert ticket. So I bought it. There’s like Ukrainian, they want the What is what did they win? Vira Kalush won the Eurovision, and I purchased tickets for them like two months ago, and it was early access blah blah blah. And today I receive email like oh get twenty five percent off, and I’m like what the like why why why why are you sending this to me? And now I’m upset, and I emailed them and say like listen I want this deal. I don’t want that deal anymore. So I think people will be upset if you send them the higher discount on. Cyber Monday.

Andrea: 9:13

So my solution to this problem is segmentation though.

Andriy: 9:16

Of course. I mean, one-on-one email marketing.

Andrea: 9:20

I don’t know if you know this, but no, one of the things that I’ve been talking about a lot with some of my clients is like to reduce the number of customer complaints or customer concerns, to exclude people who have made recent purchases of things you’re putting on sale in general, but specifically for Black Friday. Like if someone bought on Friday, I don’t want to send them a Cyber Monday email anyway, unless I have enough SKUs to support that. Right. And so like, if I have enough SKUs to support that, like, okay, so on, on Black Friday, it’s 50% off, but it’s only these collections. And then on Monday, it’s 50% off, but it’s these other collections. I think that’s when you want to send to everyone both times. But otherwise, if the sale is the same, except maybe just a different percentage, I wouldn’t send it to people who’ve already made a purchase during the Black Friday, Cyber Monday period.

Vira: 10:09

I would, I would. That’s what we are doing with one of my clients. We are basically divided this groups in like 2 different promotions. So people who shop during the holiday seasons and people who didn’t shop during the holiday season. So those who purchased like zero or placed zero orders, they will get 53% off. They are Cyber Monday deals. Those who already purchased, they will get like another last chance 50% off. So basically the discount code that they already used, but we will just like word it differently. And we’ll say something like, our shelf life of this product is like 12 months. So you can like stock up on this product because it’s like, it doesn’t expire for a year. And to see like the best results, you need like a lot of these products. And we will also like word it around like gift giving. So we can say like, purchase this bundle, you can split it and give as like stocking stuffers. So basically like my solution here is like 2 different groups of customers, like 2 different emails and they will be like—

Andrea: 11:04

But also 2 different discounts, right? So what I’m What you’re saying though, if you’re going to increase the discount, don’t send it to the same people who have already made purchases.

Vira: 11:11

Of course.

Andrea: 11:12

Yes. That’s the— like, because like, really, that’s the issue, right?

Vira: 11:16

Right, right.

Andriy: 11:18

I mean, I see this issue. Maybe it does not exist, but I kind of— if I see a better deal than the deal I just purchased, it’s just, I don’t know, like—

Andrea: 11:29

You get cranky about it.

Andriy: 11:30

Yeah, it’s sometimes it’s like, it’s not— we’re talking about probably like about like $3, $5, but it’s not about the amount, but the thing that You’re like, oh, I spent more and now I should spend less.

Andrea: 11:42

You don’t want to train them to wait either.

Vira: 11:45

Right.

Andriy: 11:45

Yeah, 100%. So how early? How early? I recently posted from Lumen. Do you know that deodorant that lasts for 7 days or something? So they start their sales on October 21st, 49% discount. But I’m just curious, like, if you start so early, What do you do actually for Black Friday, Cyber Monday? Or sorry, better question, how soon should you start?

Andrea: 12:13

I feel like the earliest I want to start seeing them as a consumer is like maybe a week before. So like, it’s my opinion, and I think I mentioned this to you, maybe not on the post that you made, but in our internal channels that like, it’s such a missed opportunity as a brand, right? Especially when we’re talking about email, because the whole point is that we’re nurturing brand relationships. That’s literally the whole point. So you have this opportunity, if you have the ability with your margins to create a sale of that, like huge discount, which is separately wild. But like, if you have the opportunity to make a huge discount, why wouldn’t you try to create a sale within your brand that your customers then remember and care about, outside of Black Friday. So like, in terms of like what that looks like, it’s like, okay, so we have Black Friday coming up in about 4 weeks. If right now I want to run a sale for the next, let’s call it 7 days, there’s still 3 weeks of time between what those 2 things could be. And so with that, that one that I’m running right now, it could be like our annual fall sale, like our annual Halloween sale. And then you’re still taking the market share from your competitors through the Black Friday season, right? Because that’s why you would start early. But you’re also creating a better relationship with your clients to say to them, like, we care about you outside of Black Friday. We want you to be able to afford our products regardless of whether it’s like a national sale time or not. And I think that that’s the smart way to do it is to try and create those better relationships. And that’s, that’s where success comes from, right, is those repeat purchasers who are going to be looking forward to your annual fall sale. Or, you know, I have a client who does an anniversary sweepstakes. And so every year they do this sweepstakes and they give away a ton of stuff and it helps them grow their list. And they do that through October, right? And it’s not, it’s not taking any of their sales away from Black Friday. It’s instead like using the time before that to really get prepared and create better relationships with your clients. Because if I did a 49% off sale for the next 7 days, then took 2 weeks off and did another 49% off sale, even exactly the same code, exactly the same everything, then people who didn’t purchase the first time and then maybe wanted the product 2 weeks after that are more likely to make that sale if there’s that gap period versus if it’s just always 49% off. Does that make sense?

Vira: 14:42

Right.

Andriy: 14:42

I love it.

Vira: 14:43

Right.

Andriy: 14:43

Yeah.

Vira: 14:45

Yeah.

Andriy: 14:45

Yeah.

Vira: 14:46

And I don’t want to start like too early because like a lot of brands, they do run this like huge Halloween promotions or this big Fall promotions. I like hate when this discounts are like competing with each other, especially if you have this situation when you can like stack discount codes in Shopify. You can do this, but I know that in other platforms you can, so that might be a problem too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, for for most of my clients, the earliest I start with one of my clients, and that’s because that’s like the nature of their business as like November 14th. So that’s when we are running like big.

Andrea: 15:23

I think my first one is about the same, but they’re doing a very interesting discount strategy.

Vira: 15:27

Yeah, it’s like what, 2 weeks, 10 days?

Andrea: 15:29

Yeah, which we will talk about their discount strategy because it is very interesting.

Andriy: 15:33

But before, hold on, but I’m curious about November 14th for both of your brands. So you have a discount, let’s say, I don’t know, let’s say 30%. Do you do something different on Black Friday, Cyber Monday? Oh, sorry, Black Friday, specifically the Friday day and then on Monday something different, or you run promo from 14th to end of Cyber Monday?

Andrea: 15:59

So in the case of—

Vira: 16:00

basically for—

Andrea: 16:01

okay, go ahead.

Vira: 16:01

Yeah. For this specific client, they are having like different promotions on different days. And we are like targeting, say, like specific brands or like specific people who visited specific brand with like that specific promo. And I mean, what we also are doing, we’re like very open about the promotions that will happen until the end of the month. But if you want this specific brand, it’s better to get it now. And also, part of the business for them, that stock is limited. So that’s why we are more comfortable with offering these different discounts for different brands. But yeah, but we will have the sort of like a sitewide tiered promotion. It’s a very complicated structure, but we will have a sitewide tiered promotion during Black Friday, Cyber Monday. And it will be like the same promotion for Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and it will end on December 1st. So that’s Sort of like our strategy.

Andrea: 16:54

Yeah. The one I’m doing, we’re starting on the 14th with like a VIP launch, an exclusive launch. So only their VIP list has access starting on the 14th. And then starting on the 18th, they’re running 12 days of each day as a different promotion. So for the first, like all of the deals are going to be available the whole time, but the ones that we’re going to talk about day by day are going to change. So No, it’s not going to be a unique discount on the Friday and the Monday, but we will be sending like the biggest discount to promote the biggest of the discounts that are available.

Andriy: 17:30

Okay. Thank you.

Vira: 17:32

Yeah, we’re doing actually a similar thing for 12 Days of Christmas. It’s not like Black Friday, Cyber Monday, but we’re doing it in December as well. But what we’re going to do, we’re going to give them the schedule of promotions right away. So we can say like on this day, we like, you will get discount on like this product. This day you will get discount for this product. So basically like everything, like all of our cards are open. We’re like playing with open cards.

Andriy: 17:54

So it’s like— Like 12 Days of Christmas, like on the first day of Christmas, you know, you’ll get something.

Vira: 18:02

Pretty much. Yeah, pretty much. Yes. But the idea here is that like one day, like every day is like a different product and like segmentation will be slightly different as well for every one of those days. But yeah, that’s, that’s the plan. Cool, guys. So let’s talk about the tiered discounts. A lot of brands are doing them. I know like a lot of my brands, some of my brands will be doing this tier discount code as well. Andrea, tell us more about it. What’s, what’s the whole fuss about?

Andrea: 18:31

I love a tier discount because essentially it will say like you get a percentage or a dollar amount off if you hit a certain threshold in your cart. The reason that this is a really great way to kind of do discounting is that you don’t need like a bundle solution. You let them build their own bundle in their cart and that bundle is going to be discounted by a certain amount depending on how much they actually spend. So it’s a less techie option of being able to create bundles. It also kind of like looks really good, right? So like, if I as a shopper, I’m like, oh, I have, I don’t know, $65 in my cart. And I get 10% off my $65 order. If I spend $10 more before shipping, I get, I get 15% off instead of 10% off. And that for me is like, ooh, Is that maybe just like $2 or $3, as Audrey said earlier? And perhaps like from a logical perspective, it doesn’t make sense. But we know that shoppers are not logical, right? Like we know that we’re all excited by the idea of like, oh, I got 15% off, that’s amazing, versus I got 10% off. So I think that that’s where we see a lot of success with the tiered discounts is having a really good understanding of your average cart value and your margins. So if you know both of those things and you’re able to say my average cart value is about $80, okay, so how do we get them from $80 to $105?

Andriy: 19:48

Right?

Andrea: 19:48

And that’s what tiered discounts are really good for in Black Friday and also otherwise. I love a tiered discount that also stacks. So like, if you have— not stacks in terms of like you get 10% and then 15% off, but like, if you have, say, a doorcrasher deal or like a morning deal with your— with whatever brand you’re working on, and you can also apply that towards the tiered discounts, I think that that’s a really good way to kind of capture that energy of like, get here at 3 AM and like Get this early morning discount, and then we’ll add it. We’ll add the additional discount because that’s kind of how it feels to shop in a store, and that’s what we’re really missing in e-commerce is that like piece of like real excitement where you’re like, oh well, I have to get there early, and I have to be. It’s very urgent that I’m like one of the first people to make this purchase because we can stack it, and tier discounts are great for that because the more you buy is the more you save, and from a customer perspective, that really feels good, and that’s what we want to create.

Andriy: 20:43

I love what you just said, to feel that excitement. And I personally believe it works for brands who have some kind of like community around there or some uniqueness or limited quality. Like Last Crumb Cookies was one of the examples we gave in the last episode and Roosevelt’s Shorts. And actually, I pitched the idea for Roosevelt’s like 2 years ago for Black Friday, Cyber Monday to start their sale like at 5 AM and each hour they have different discount and it just kind of increases, discount increases every hour. So like let’s say 50%, then, sorry, decreases.

Vira: 21:28

Decreases.

Andriy: 21:29

So yeah, 5 AM is like 50%, 6 AM is like 40%. So you have to wake up early to get in, but it creates that urge.

Andrea: 21:40

That’s like the joy of Black Friday though. Like even when we, at the beginning of this pod— this very podcast, when we’re talking about like, have you ever been at 3 AM? There’s something like culturally about that for people who are like, let’s call it over 30, who are like, they— I remember seeing those videos on the news, on TV of like people trampling trying to get into a Walmart. And I’m like, that to me feels like Black Friday in like a very— not fun, ’cause like that sounds dangerous, but like a very like exciting way. Mm-hmm. Doing something like that where like it’s a decreasing or, you know, a staggered discount of some kind is like a really cool way to capture that again. Because like, I’m not, I’m certainly not going to a store on Black Friday in 2023. Absolutely not. So like, how do we, how do we create that excitement? And I think that that’s a really cool way of doing it.

Vira: 22:57

Yeah, I think Chubbies did the same. Like they were launching one deal per hour. The discount codes didn’t like decrease, but since they have like a limited availability of products, And they didn’t have like the sitewide promotions. They were like launching like a deal per hour or something. And they were like sending an email, which is crazy to me to think that you would send like 10 emails or like 12 emails per day. But I feel like that gamified the entire process, right? So you’re like sitting there, you’re waiting for the products. It’s kind of fun.

Andriy: 23:28

Just was one caveat because you mentioned Kavi one. So So the first strategy was this flat discount, first percentage, flat percentage. It works for kind of not smaller brand, but if you have a limited, like if you’re in your company, you don’t have enough resources, like you don’t have team, you don’t have freelancer, you don’t have agencies that works for you. So it’s like, it’s easy, easy, quick promo to do. Something like tier discount, like you need more resources and you like what Jaswira mentioned, like to schedule 10 emails.

Andrea: 24:05

Yeah.

Andriy: 24:06

Make sure they are correctly segmented, properly set up, scheduled at the right time. You will need some resources.

Andrea: 24:15

Even as a person who works at an agency, you’re like, we want to send 10 emails in one day. And I’m like, oh my gosh.

Andriy: 24:22

And it’s only one client. And when you manage like 7, you’re like, whoa, I’m sweating.

Andrea: 24:28

You’re like, why are you stressed? It’s not even happening to me. I’m like, okay, well, Yep, that makes sense. I feel like a one-man show definitely couldn’t pull that off.

Vira: 24:38

Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, I’m doing the tier discounts this year for like 2 of my clients, and I’m very excited about it. We’ve tried it like last year, and our average order value went like up even compared to like the year before, which is crazy to me. Cool. Okay, so one more exciting strategy that some of the brands I will be shopping for used last year is buy one, get one deals. Andrea, tell me more about it. Do you think it’s appropriate for Black Friday, Cyber Monday? Yes.

Andrea: 25:59

Why would I want one when I could have 2? Like, I just like conceptually, my favorite is like one of the examples that we were looking at was like eyeglasses. I have probably 15 pairs of eyeglasses. I wear them as an accessory. I only wear these ones. that I’m currently wearing. You guys, every photo you’ve seen of me for the past year and a half, I’ve probably been wearing these exact glasses. And yet I keep buying glasses. And one of the reasons I keep buying glasses is that the e-commerce site that I buy my glasses from will be like, buy 2, get 1 free. And I’m like, I don’t need any glasses, but I could get a free pair. So I do. I’m, I’m honestly, it’s, it’s hilarious because I work as a strategist. I’m like, I know all the tricks and I fall for every single one. But I love, I love BOGO as a concept if your margins allow for it. Again, I keep saying this, but like, if your margins allow for it, this is a great offer because the perceived value is double, right?

Vira: 27:00

Right.

Andrea: 27:01

So if you can afford to do it, even if it’s like buy one, get one 50% off, buy 2, get one free, whatever it is, you have to think about it from the eyes of your customer and your audience. What they’re seeing is like, you’re giving me something extra that you don’t have to give me, which is like, wow, that’s so exciting. And I’m going to have double the product for the same amount of price and all of these other kinds of pieces. So if it’s possible for you, and you don’t want to do just a flat discount, this is a really cool way to do it. One of the interesting things that one of my clients does is they do a buy one get one, but the get one is only out of one specific category of their Shopify store. So they sell coffee and they do like, if you buy an espresso machine, you can get a bag of coffee for free and not for Black Friday necessarily. I don’t think we’ve done it for Black Friday, but it’s something that we include in a lot of their email flows because what do you need when you get a new coffee machine? More than anything else, you probably need coffee.

Vira: 28:03

Right.

Andrea: 28:03

Like, it’s just kind of like a logical thing for me to say to my customer, like, hey, you bought this brand new machine that’s so great and does all these cool things. Like perhaps you need some beans, right? And it’s a thoughtful thing to do as a brand. So I love a BOGO. I think that there’s 2 ways to do it. There’s like a direct, like you buy one, you get the same one for free. You could do buy one, you get something completely different for half off. You could do buy 2 from any category and get something free from this category.

Vira: 28:31

Mm-hmm.

Andrea: 28:32

So there’s a lot of ways to structure it that it actually could make sense for you. And if you do sell something that requires a certain number of accessories or add-ons or whatever that might be, a BOGO is a really good way to increase the number of items that you’ve sold to these people, even if it’s through an offer, right?

Vira: 28:50

Right.

Andrea: 28:51

Because if, say, I sell— again, I’m gonna use coffee as an example because it’s a great one. The replenishment of beans is something that is an ongoing purchase, whereas the machine is a one-time purchase. You’re not gonna buy 2 espresso machines in one Unless you’re wild, in which case, like, I would like to be your friend because, like, I will come over and you can make me coffee as often as you like. But conceptually, like, you, you aren’t buying that all the time. So, like, if I know that this brand is, like, gonna give me a discount sometimes and, like, gives me free beans when, like, when I make bigger purchases, I’m actually more likely to purchase those beans from them the next time I need them. And that’s, like, a really good way to, again, build that relationship between a brand and a customer.

Andriy: 29:36

So like, we, Vira and Alissa used to bring a lot of mattresses examples. So it’s like when you buy mattresses, buy one pillow and get another pillow for free, something like that. Like, which makes sense unless you like single.

Andrea: 29:51

Unless it’s a twin bed.

Andriy: 29:53

Yeah.

Vira: 29:54

Which is like—

Andrea: 29:55

I’m the type of person who sleeps with 4 pillows though. So I would love that.

Vira: 29:58

Right. The twin bed is my near future because like I’m moving to London now. And I’m like looking at all of the places that they have and they are teeny tiny. I don’t know how people can live in those like shoeboxes.

Andriy: 30:11

And that’s something you’re standing when you sleep. You just stand.

Vira: 30:14

Oh, okay. Yeah, it makes more sense. Yeah. But I really like your example, Andrea, because that’s something similar that I’m doing with my clients. And actually we tested like different language around the buy one, get one free. So basically we had the bundle of the products. And pretty much if you divide the price of the products in a bundle, one of them ended up being free. But we didn’t promote it as such. It was just like 3 products, X% off. And then we promoted it as like buy 2 serums and get the first one or the third one for free. The same identical price, like the same offer. It’s just like the wording around it was different. And we put like a little nice bow on like top of the freebie and people loved it. And every time we promote that like bundle with like a free product, it does work.

Andrea: 31:08

So we love free as a society. We love free. It’s easy.

Andriy: 31:13

I think personally, I think any discount is actually like all the discounts the same, but how we package it like that BOGO, buy one, get one free, it’s like, it’s basically, it’s 50% off or dollar amount off or like, or like buy 2, get 1 free. It’s like, what, 33% or something off. So it just depends how we kind of frame it. And you just need to know your audience and what they click with.

Andrea: 31:43

Yeah, it’s all about framing. I think regardless of what offer you do, it’s really all about framing because you could say BOGO, buy one, get one free. You could say buy 2 and like buy 2 at 50% off, you know, get 50% off when you buy 2 or more, right? And it is the same deal. But I personally, if you tell me like buy one and get one free, I’m like, let’s go wrap it up, put it in the bag, ship it to me, let’s go. But honestly, I would do the opposite if it was— I don’t know that I would do the opposite, but I don’t know if I would do it if it was like Buy 2 at 50% off.

Andriy: 32:22

I don’t like, I don’t like BOGO when they do buy 2 and get 25% off on the third one or buy first one and second is like 75% off. For me as a consumer, it’s too confusing. And have you ever go to store where they have discounts, a lot of discounts, and they have like explanation sheet? Like, what does it mean? It’s like, oh, if it’s this, you’ve never been to the—

Andrea: 32:50

I mean, you catch me there like trying to do the math. They’re like, they’re like, oh, it’s like this one is gonna be 28% off. I’m like, why did you choose that number? I’m like looking at this little sign like, okay.

Andriy: 33:04

Yeah, so they have the kind of price list. If it’s $29 and this is off, this is the final discount. And they have like, you just need to match, um, measure price.

Andrea: 33:15

Yeah, it’s not for me. I don’t love that because I think it’s like I try to make things as easy for the end user as possible. So like, if we’re doing an ecommerce sale, I want it to be so clear and so straightforward what’s exactly going to happen. I actually was online shopping yesterday for something I don’t need, as is classic Andrea, and I put it in my cart because it was like free shipping over $50. And I was like, oh, sick, I love free shipping. Like, I don’t know, that offer works on me every time. It’s so stupid, but it works on me every time. I get there and it’s like international shipping doesn’t count. And it was an American store. So they weren’t going to honor that free shipping that I saw on the product page. And I didn’t make the purchase because I was like, well, I’ll just wait for you to send me a discount then. Like, I’ll just sign up for your list and wait for you to send me a discount because I’m not going to pay $50 in shipping because I live an hour north of the American border.

Vira: 34:07

That’s actually— I read that this is how Black Friday, Cyber Monday first started in Canada. Like, there was this point in Canada when our dollar was like the same as American dollar. It was like 1 to 1 and everyone was driving like south for Black Friday, Cyber Monday. And then like Canadian retailers realized that this is like a huge missed opportunity and they started doing Black Friday, Cyber Monday. And what was like shocking to me that it wasn’t even like that long ago. It was like the early 2000s or something like 2007 or something. So that’s pretty much how we started Black Friday, in our country as well. One more interesting discount— it’s not even a discount strategy, but the incentive strategies that I want to discuss with you guys is the limited edition products and product launches for Black Friday, Cyber Monday. What are your thoughts on that?

Andrea: 34:59

I love it. I— so a couple of reasons I love that. I’m going to talk about margins again. I don’t know why I’m so obsessed with margins today. Usually I’m not, but conceptually, if there’s a limited edition item I as a business owner could buy or make that I’m then like, oh, my margins are this on this are a bit lower, I can sell it for lower or whatever, compared to my normal products. Not only am I creating the incentive for the customer who’s like, oh, I’m so excited about this new limited edition item. And like, it’s, I’m not gonna be able to get it if I don’t buy it today, and on and on and on, which are all the really good reasons to do that. But from a business standpoint, if I can create that with a lower margin, or I can order something that maybe has a lower price point, point and a higher MSRP, then I can discount it more appropriately for what I paid for it and also incentivize through the limited edition or launch type of scenario. So I have a client who literally the other day told me like, some of the stuff we put on sale is not a regular SKU, it’s things that we purchased specifically for Black Friday. So that we’re able to discount more heavily than some of our competitors. I’m like, that is so clever. Like, that’s the way to do it really is if you can, if you can create things that are not your normal sale, not the normal product that you sell, but definitely would appeal to your audience. And you can then put a timer on it that’s like, this is limited edition, you’re not going to be able to get it after this weekend. I think that you’re really creating the perfect storm of like, get them to buy it, you know?

Vira: 36:28

Right, right. No, I love when brands are launching like themed products. Again, I’m going to use Chubby’s example, but I think it’s so cool. They launched this pair of shorts that is like sweats plus shorts, the schworts. And basically the idea there was that they are comfy for the whole turkey. So you just need comfy clothing for Black Friday, for Turkey Day, I guess. So that’s why they launched schworts. And they sold it before, I guess, before the holiday they sold it. And like at a discounted price as well, which I think is really cool. But what I also like about the brands that you don’t even need to discount the product if you’re like launching it specifically for this holiday, right? Which keeps your margins high. Andriy, what’s your take on that?

Andriy: 37:15

Yeah, so I like what Roosevelt did. Actually, I think they’re doing this every year. They basically releasing the wrapping branded wrapping paper and give it for free with each purchase. And I mean, they’re a unique store, but people even resell their paper on eBay. It’s like kind of collectibles now.

Vira: 37:39

Yeah.

Andriy: 37:40

But it’s so cool. You cannot buy it by itself. You cannot buy in the store. Like, you cannot just go and buy the wrapping papers. So this is like, you have to buy something to get this wrapping paper. Also, they have a limited availability, and I think they announced how much they have, like 5,000 or something. And the third thing I forgot to say, oh, it’s, I mean, it’s exclusive for that season. So it’s not, they don’t do it every year. They don’t do it multiple times through the years, only on Black Friday, Cyber Monday sale.

Andrea: 38:13

And is it a different design every year? The same design?

Andriy: 38:17

No, they do different.

Andrea: 38:18

See, that’s so clever. I love that.

Andriy: 38:21

Because they have different licenses. Because they work with like Time Warner, sorry, Warner Brothers, with Disney, and they have different movies, different cartoons. tunes on the wrapping papers.

Andrea: 38:33

Oh, I love that. That’s so clever.

Vira: 38:34

So much fun. I love it. I love how this item became collectible. That’s actually happened in Canada, too. I’m bringing up Canadian examples all the time. A bit off topic, but we had this collaboration between Justin Bieber and Tim Hortons. Tim Hortons, it’s like a huge coffee chain. You know who Justin Bieber is, Andriy?

Andriy: 38:56

Yeah. And I even ate— I bought those things for my kids. How’s it called? Tim— how’s those things called?

Andrea: 39:04

Timbits.

Vira: 39:05

Timbits. Yes. But we have the Timbits, but then they had collaboration with Justin Bieber and they had Tim Bibs. So basically like the same thing, but just like named differently. Like the—

Andrea: 39:15

they were different flavors.

Vira: 39:17

Like he launched his own flavors.

Andrea: 39:19

Yeah.

Vira: 39:19

Yeah.

Andrea: 39:20

But like people were selling the boxes.

Vira: 39:22

Right.

Andrea: 39:23

Online.

Vira: 39:24

Right. And they had some merch as well, like hats and bags or something like that. And I think that the most expensive I’ve seen, because the launch was very limited, the most expensive I’ve seen was like $800 for the hat that probably costed like $1 to make in China.

Andrea: 39:40

$10 to buy at Tim Hortons, $800.

Vira: 39:44

Yeah. I love that exclusivity aspect of the sale. You guys, have you ever seen the mystery discounts or like mystery savings for Black Friday, Cyber Monday? Because I’ve seen them like last year. I’ve seen quite a few last year. Have you, have you experienced mystery savings and like discount wheels and stuff like that?

Andrea: 40:06

I have. I, so my thing with mystery savings is that I never believe that it’s like, I just believe that it’s a flat discount. I don’t think that other people are getting a different discount than me. I don’t know if that’s true or false. I, and I will never know. But my thing is always like, I’ll click on the, I’ll click on the link and I’ll go and I’ll see what the discount is. And then I’ll decide if I buy or not. So like, it is in some ways as an email marketer, I’m like, do that. Like, go, go click on that. That would be great. But from a, from a, you know, you want your clients to make the most money possible scenario, you still have to make sure that those mystery discounts are of a value that will actually convert.

Vira: 40:46

Right.

Andrea: 40:46

And that’s, that’s where I think a lot of people miss the mark. Like if I click on that and I get there and they’re like, your mystery discount, like scratch the little thing. Your little mystery discount is 10%. I’m like, bye.

Vira: 40:55

Right.

Andrea: 40:56

On Black Friday? Absolutely. Like, no chance. So like, I think as long as the discounts that you’re offering within the mystery discount are still high, I think like there’s a good reason to do that. But I think it’s just extra gamifying during a time when you don’t need to do that. In the case of like Black Friday, I think on a regular sale, like if you want to do that in July to like up your summer sales, I’d be like, do that. Great idea. I just don’t know if that’s for Black Friday.

Vira: 41:21

That’s actually what we are doing for, um, the Halloween sale that is like coming like this week. Uh, we are doing the find the pumpkins with the discount codes and spoiler alert, the discount code is more than 50% off. Um, so that’s something that we’re doing for one of my clients and they have to like find the pumpkins with like discount codes, which is like super obvious to find. And we also added the discount code to the disclaimer just like in case, you know, so in case someone like doesn’t see the images or in case they don’t see the alt text or something, we have the discount code and disclaimer. So it’s like very hard not to find it, but it still adds that like little layer of like gamification to them.

Andriy: 41:59

Not that I don’t believe in people, but trust me, that client still will get customer requests that they never found it, they never read it. And where’s the discount? It was— Yeah.

Vira: 42:09

Yeah. Last year we just like literally attached that like mystery discount code to their links. So basically, if they just clicked on the product, it would automatically apply the discount code at the checkout. So they had no reason to complain, but I’m sure they still will get some complaints from the customers. They always do. And that’s actually a great point, Andrii, because I do agree with you and Andrea that simplifying everything around the holidays when you’re getting the extra high number of customer calls and complaints. That’s like the key here.

Andriy: 42:43

I recently received a campaign from a big brand. I will not name it. Like, here’s our Father’s Day promotions. And it was in September. I think it was a missent. But I mean, I was planning to email them, but then I lost track of it.

Vira: 43:03

Yeah, Christmas in July campaigns.

Andrea: 43:05

I hear that and I’m like, I’m stressed. And it wasn’t me. It has nothing to do with me. I’m like, awesome.

Andriy: 43:09

No, no, no, no, no. It’s not awesome.

Vira: 43:14

Yeah, yeah. I think these emails are fun, to be honest. Like Christmas in July hit every year we sent it, but when you like purposely are doing that, right? So yeah, let’s talk about the gifts, gift guides and gifts with purchases because that’s a big topic. Let’s start from like the gift guides, you guys. Can I go first? Yes, let’s do this.

Andriy: 43:37

No, I mean, as I’m bad, extremely bad with gift giving, and not because I’m like greedy or anything, because I don’t, I don’t, I have no clue what to buy. So when as a consumer, when somebody sent me email with like, hey, this is a recommendation for your, I don’t know, for kids or for this age range or for ladies, and because X, Y, and Z explanation and logic behind it. I’m so grateful for those brands. It’s like sometimes I even don’t need— sometimes I’ve subscribed to fishing brands. I’m not a fishing guy at all, but I’ve subscribed and they are so explicit why it would be a great gift for somebody who likes to fish. And I’m like, oh wow, it makes a lot of sense. And I don’t even need the discount. Honestly, as a consumer, I don’t need the discount. It’s not about discount. You provided so much value in that explanation, in that curated list. But if But if it’s not lazy, because I saw what brands do, they just put gift guide and put the bestseller and it’s like, it’s useless. Like, I can visit your bestseller page and I don’t care about that. But if you curate it, it’s perfect.

Andrea: 44:54

Yeah, I love giving gifts and I’m very good at giving gifts because I shop all the time. But like, again, hey, if you need customers, I’m your guy. But the thing I love about like a really well-curated gift guide is that there’s sometimes I’ll receive one and I’ll be like, oh, that’s a person I wasn’t necessarily going to buy a gift for, but this would be perfect for them. And then I buy it because I am that person. I also love gift guides conceptually as like an incentive to opt in on your website.

Andriy: 45:29

Amazing.

Andrea: 45:30

Amazing. It’s such a great idea. Yes. So like for a person like Andre, who’s maybe shopping for his wife on a website that he’s never been on before, when that pop-up comes up and it’s like, hey, get our like exclusive gift guide and get early access to our Black Friday sale. And if you put both those things in that opt-in on November 5th, Andre’s opting in. Like there’s no chance that he’s not, right? Because if he’s already shopping on this website for a gift and that opt-in pops up, that’s like you’ve, you’ve really hit him at the right time with the right message, you know? And so I like to actually use gift guides as a pre-Black Friday, Black Friday, Cyber Monday incentive to say like, hey, opt in in the next 2 weeks and get a gift guide and early access to our sale. Then I can make sure that I’m converting that person on November 14th, November 18th instead of the 26th.

Vira: 46:20

That’s a cool idea. Is it like too late for me to like redo my holiday popups?

Andrea: 46:25

Because I like love this stage. It’s only October 27th.

Vira: 46:29

It’s only October 27th.

Andriy: 46:32

It would be interesting also just to see analytics because my hypothesis is that that email are getting more opens, more reopens. Unfortunately, I don’t think we are able to track reopens or actually—

Andrea: 46:47

I would track it by looking at—

Andriy: 46:49

How many times it was open. So we can do that directly.

Andrea: 46:52

You can look at opens or you could do like, you could track it by like unique clicks versus total clicks.

Andriy: 46:58

Okay. Because I assume, I mean, this is my hypothesis, that emails get more reopens, people save. Yes. Sorry, this week we sent the email for a nonprofit organization and we were announcing a documentary movie which featured here in New York. And the interesting thing I noticed that few people were opening this email. I’m not sure, is there sharing or something like it was like more than 5 times they opened that email.

Andrea: 47:28

Or they forwarded it to a friend, which is like also a great, a great way to— if you wanted to, if you know that there’s a lot of people on your list who are like repeat customers, sending them an email of like, hey, like opt in to get our gift guide to forward to your significant other or forward to you, to someone who’s buying you a gift. Like, because I personally, at 33 years old, my mother has no concept of what to buy me. me, she knows that I will purchase what I want. Again, I’m a great shopper. So like, I will purchase what I want. She’s like, what do you want for Christmas? And I’m like, oh, I don’t know. Right? And it’s hard for me as a person who’s like going to receive that gift to be useful in like, this is the list of the things that I want. Versus if I know that a brand that I love will send me a gift guide when I opt in, I can forward that to my mother and then she can look at it however she needs to look at it, right? However and whenever. And even if she uses that to actually make a purchase, that click attribution will still apply, which is great.

Vira: 48:29

Right. And I love when brands are going like a step, going above and beyond and creating this little SMS journeys. Like there’s this brand Vins, they created this SMS journey where you like subscribe to SMS and they ask you, hey, who are you shopping for your family, friend, significant other? And then you have to like pick the option A, B, or C. And then based on that, based on your answer, I guess they would like send you like a different gift guide, which is, I think it’s cool and it’s interactive as well. And yeah, yeah, I’m thinking of doing something similar.

Andrea: 49:05

I also think that conversations as a feature are underused in SMS marketing. So this is something that is a native feature to Klaviyo and I’m sure other SMS providers as well. as well, where if someone does reply to that, we can send them an automated message that includes a link to a gift guide. And that is like a really cool way of using that functionality that a lot of people are not using and therefore, frankly, breaking through the clutter a little bit of Black Friday, Cyber Monday.

Andriy: 49:29

One caution that I would like to add about gift guides, do not force it to your brands if it doesn’t apply. If you have only one SKU, like to create a gift guide around like your products would be bad. Maybe the brands you can either partner up or maybe get their affiliation link. So basically you will get the benefit, but you will provide unbiased kind of gift guide. Not not only include your products, but the other products. And maybe you can even mention in the beginning of that gift guide, so people will appreciate the honesty.

Andrea: 50:08

A really great way to do this if you are. Like a founder-led brand, or if you have like some sort of face to your company that’s like a real person, or even if you wanted to do it as like our team recommends, is when I used to work in cosmetics, one of the things we would do was like our founder’s like ultimate gift, gift guide for the holiday season. And it would be one of our products. And then 5 other products that our founder really loved from other brands that had similar values or similar brand alignment, whether it was like they were also cosmetics brands, or they just simply like were also environmentally friendly brands, or they were also whatever. And by doing that, what you have the opportunity to do is, A, help your SEO, create a little backlink moment with your, like, brands that you’re working with. But also, you’re able to support other brands that maybe you as the founder or you as the business, like, really like or want to partner with further in the future, right? So like, maybe we do that this year, and then next year, we’re selling a co-branded bundle, right? And so on and so forth. That’s a really cool way to integrate a gift guide if you do only have 1 or 2 SKUs, or if you only have a few SKUs that are Right.

Vira: 51:15

And you also build like relationship, build trust with your customers because those brand guides, they feel very like unbiased, right? Because you’re not just like promoting your products, but also other products. And it made me smile your comment about like not pushing the same product in your gift guide to everyone. Could you imagine like supplement, a great gift for your mom, for your loved one, for your significant other? Believe it or not, we’ve made— yes, believe it or not, we’ve actually done the supplements gift guide for one of the brands that I work with. And it did perform really well, which like surprised me because it doesn’t sound like the most exciting topic in the world, right? But we worded it as give a gift of health to someone you care about. And it was a hit actually. And I’m going to be doing this again.

Andriy: 52:01

I think they just care that you are sending those emails. And those who are, like, how do you call them, baby boomers, they care that you are like, oh, Vira sent us email, we need to buy from them. So, like, just to support them. That must be it.

Andrea: 52:16

Even again, like, using the example of my mother is like, sometimes when I was in my 20s and, like, money was tight or, like, whatever, and she was like, what would you like for Christmas? I’m like, can you just buy me, like, Advil and allergy pills? Because, like, that’s a $60 purchase. Like, and for For someone who’s maybe like— and that sounds crazy when I say it out loud now, but I’m like, because obviously, like, I could just go buy that now. But like, at the time when I was a university student and I like didn’t have any money and she was like, what can I get you? I’m like, this is such a practical gift. So there is a way to do it. I think supplements is a great example. It’s like, I have allergies in fall and in spring. I’m like barely a person unless I take an allergy pill. So like, when you sell a supplement that helps with like sinus congestion, And my mom knows that that’s an issue for me and that it causes me all these skin concerns and all these other things. She’s like, oh, I’m sure Andrea would be happy to try that supplement. And that is still a gift guide, even if it’s not like the sexiest gift guide in the world. You know what I mean?

Vira: 53:14

Yeah, yeah. That’s what we will be doing this year as well. I’ll let you know how it went. I’m like always excited to see the results from that specific brand. Yeah. And like to wrap up this podcast, the last thing we want to talk to you guys about is the gift with the purchase. A lot of brands are doing that. And Andrea, I know you’re particularly a big fan of this promotion. Tell us more about it.

Andrea: 53:38

So there’s 2 ways that you could do this. There’s the standard gift with purchase is like you purchase over this amount, we’ll send you a gift. And like you can tell them what the gift is. It’s like the one of the ones that I really love that I see all the time in beauty brands. And again, I hate to like be like, I used to work in beauty and that’s what I love. And I do. So unfortunately, that’s what we’re getting. But one of the things was like, get a free beauty bag when you purchase like over X number of dollars. One of our previous clients, Versed Skin, they have this like viral headband. I have one in my office somewhere. But they often do like spend over this amount and we’ll send you one of these viral headbands. The other way to do it is to do like spend over this amount, we’ll send you a mystery gift, which is like so fun. And that for me is like the cool way of doing the mystery discount, right? It’s kind of like lumping all these things together. You could also lump that in with with a tiered discount. You can say like, get a mystery gift valued at $15 when you spend $50 or more, get a mystery gift valued at over $40 when you spend $100 or more. And that sounds again with that framing idea, that really sounds like a cool way to encourage them to increase their average cart value. I love a mystery gift and I found it to be very successful in multiple accounts that I’ve worked on. Like just, it’s such a good thing because people want something free. Right? It’s like I said earlier, we love free stuff. I love free stuff. One of the big things for me too is like, depending on what the brand is, or what, what your vertical is, like, say it’s, say it is a beauty brand or a skincare brand, giving me a free item of whatever it might be, like, I don’t care, whatever you want to give me, is maybe encouraging me to try a product I otherwise wouldn’t try. So like, not only is it great for that initial kind of like, get them to convert, But it also could turn them into a more loyal customer because in the case of cosmetics, skincare, even coffee, all these other things, things that are replenishable and that you buy regularly, when I think about it, I’m like, why do I use the mascara that I use? I got it for free the first time I got it and I decided I really liked it and I’ve just been using it for 3 years. So they’ve gotten 6 purchases out of me for giving me 1 free tube of mascara.

Vira: 55:41

Right.

Andrea: 55:42

Right?

Andriy: 55:42

Yeah. It’s an amazing result.

Vira: 55:43

I love to pick my freebie. that there are like some brands, again, especially cosmetic brands, Sephora is like very known for that, where you can pick whatever freebie you want or you can pick like the small sample or, and samples are great too. And actually with one of my clients, what we will be doing this year, we have this little like recharge bar at the top where we are trying to push their average order higher. So basically they need to purchase like 2 cases of the product to get like a freebie product, then freebie is worth like $40. So it’s like a significant one. So yeah, so you can actually automate this process and definitely something to do this.

Andrea: 56:26

Like cosmetics brands have been doing this in a killer way for all time. I think about like one of the biggest ones is like Clinique. I know in Canada this is true. I don’t know about in the States, but if you go into like the Hudson’s Bay Company store, There’s always a sign like twice a year that’s like, get your free Clinique gift bag. And it’s like a makeup bag that’s full of small size products when you spend over $60. And the value there again is that repeat purchase, but also just like, I’m now carrying my makeup in a Clinique bag. I now have a stronger association with Clinique because I use that bag every day, right? I open it, I see their branding every day.

Andriy: 57:03

So I love I even recorded YouTube Shorts about this because that strategy about free gift, but for non-consumable brand. So we buy stickers for our company and other like t-shirts from Sticker Mule. I do love that company and how they do the products. But interesting thing they start doing, and I’m just curious about their results. If you buy $100 plus, they Or $50 plus, they send you hot sauce, hot sauce, a bottle of hot sauce. They are branded hot sauce. And you’re like, stickers, hot sauce, like t-shirt, what it has to do? But I’m not sure if you love hot sauce. Hot sauce is like addiction. It’s like kind of legal drug almost. And when I finish the bottle, I’m like, I want that hot sauce. So next time I came back to Sticker Mule, not because I need stickers, but I need something replenishable, which is hot sauce. So I don’t recommend for all the brands to do such crazy things, but it was on brand because like they have Sticker Mule and that thing was—

Andrea: 58:18

Yeah, it was cool, right? Like they’re cool guys who like obviously love hot sauce because they’re cool. You know what I mean?

Andriy: 58:24

Correct. Yeah. So another experience, and I believe also recorded YouTube Shorts about this. So we were ordering oils, the olive oils and balsamic sauce from one like Pennsylvania brand. Amazing, amazing oils. But they have such a long name that I don’t even remember. They have like, I don’t know, like really gigantic name. So, and this, I received a box from them and I’m like to my wife, like, did you order something? Why? I said, why did you order such a small bottles because it was like tiny ones and it was like 6 of them. And she says, I didn’t order. And when we open, when we start reading, it was insert say, hey, we appreciate your loyalty, you good customers, you blah, blah, blah, blah. So they send us like 6 samples for free and it was not even promoted. But this is just to support Andrea, what you said, to test other flavors, other kind of products they have.

Andrea: 59:26

I love that. That is like such a cool idea for brand loyalty and like retention. Just like the next time you go to buy olive oil, you remember that they sent you this sample pack. Like, what a great idea.

Andriy: 59:38

That’s even—

Andrea: 59:39

I’m talking right now, you know, like, listen, like, it’s such a famous podcast, no less.

Andriy: 59:44

But I don’t remember their name. This is like something oil taproom, something like that. You can message me for the name.

Andrea: 59:54

You gave us enough information that we can Google it, so it’s fine.

Vira: 59:58

Yes, you can ask Andriy in our WhatsApp channel what the name of that brand, because we do have a WhatsApp channel now. So go and ask your questions there. Email marketing related, olive oil related, you name it, we are there for you.

Andrea: 1:00:11

Hot sauce related. What’s your favorite hot sauce?

Vira: 1:00:13

Yeah, whatever.

Andriy: 1:00:14

Baby boomer demographic.

Vira: 1:00:16

Yeah, everything, everything you need and don’t need. Andrea, thank you so much for coming back to our podcast. It was so much fun having you here.

Andrea: 1:00:26

Yeah, thank you. I love coming.

Vira: 1:00:28

Thank you.

Andrea: 1:00:28

I’m happy to be on here all the time whenever you need me.

Vira: 1:00:30

Thank you so much. You’ll be here sooner than you, sooner than you know. Thank you so much, you guys. Definitely come back next Tuesday because next Tuesday we will be talking about average order values and how to improve your average order values during the Black Friday Cyber Monday season. Thank you so much for listening. Please leave us a review if you like what we do. Leave us a review, send us a screenshot, and we will send you some special Flowium-branded freebie for that. Thank you so much, guys. See you next Tuesday. Take care.