#158. Mastering CRO: Insider Growth Hacks with Justuno | Podcast

Vira: 0:41

Hello, hello everyone, and welcome back to Email Einstein, the podcast by Flowium. I’m your host, Vira Sadlak. And today I’m joined by a very special guest, Dilyar Askar. He’s a head of community and evangelism at Justuno. And I just love pronouncing your title. It’s so fun. And for those of you who don’t know what Justuno is, it’s basically like a kick-ass on-site conversion platform for e-commerce businesses. We’ll talk about it in depth in a minute. What you should know about Dilyar. Dilyar’s name meaning heart friend in Bigger Language. And basically, did you do your homework? I just went to your LinkedIn, man. Like, seriously, it’s all up there. It’s all like there. Yeah, I didn’t go to English to Bigger Language translation. No, it was like right there. And I was like training how to pronounce the name of your nation correctly. And I’m still struggling because English second language. So yeah, anyways, Dilyar, we’re super pumped to have you on this, on this podcast. Say hi, please.

Dilyar: 2:00

Yeah, super stoked as well. Obviously, like everybody says, it is a huge pleasure and honor to be invited. Flowium is an amazing, amazing agency and we’re just so lucky to have befriended them and have been working with them. And yeah, like, like Vira said, my name is Dilyar and Just to Know is a leading conversion optimization and lead capture platform. We’ve been around for over, what, like more than a decade with over 2,000 Shopify reviews with 5 stars. And yeah, what we do is we supercharge Klaviyo, you know, everything that Flowium does and really take data capture and onsite personalization and, you know, making the most out of every visitor on the website to the max. So yeah, that’s a bit about me and us.

Vira: 2:55

Yeah. And the numbers speak for themselves. I mean, I went to your website and it says that you guys are on average boosting revenue by 135%. And currently you’re influencing$10 billion in sales. These numbers, they sound like made-up numbers, but they are real. Yeah.

Dilyar: 3:13

So trust me, it’s as real as it gets. Our, you know, we’re legit people. We wouldn’t ever lie. We’re a 4-day workweek company. You know, we care about—

Vira: 3:22

We love the freedom. Yeah.

Dilyar: 3:24

So hopefully that speak to our character, but no, seriously, since we’ve had a lot of amazing e-commerce and non-e-commerce brands really trust us and trust us with this important aspect of lifecycle marketing, we’ve been able to collect these data points and start showing off because, yeah, just to know, it’s very easy to— it’s a no-brainer for everybody because we’re very affordable and it makes no-brainer to implement. Yeah, we’ve been able to really scale and be humbled

Vira: 3:58

Totally, totally. And I can’t wait to discuss all of this, like, exciting optimization strategies with you, Dilyar. But before we go there, I have a few blitz questions for you, like this or that kind of questions, just like to get to know you better. So yeah, let’s do this. Online shopping or offline shopping?

Dilyar: 4:19

Oh no. Okay, so like, I may be the anomaly, but like, I am someone— well, maybe not anomaly, just like many, let’s just say people around me, around similar personas myself. I fall into the stereotype of, you know, the people that just hate shopping in general, you know, despite being in marketing and just like they see it as a waste of time and so forth. So I would say majority of my purchases have been online, specifically just brands I follow as well as the A place, Amazon.

Vira: 4:55

Cool. Yeah. Like my friend, my friend said that like I’m at that age where I purchase my grocery and my clothing at the same store. I’m like, yes. Yeah, you go, girl. You go, girl.

Dilyar: 5:05

Right? Yeah.

Vira: 5:07

Cool. Okay. French fries or poutine?

Dilyar: 5:10

Oh my goodness. Oh, uh, fun fact, French fries are not from France. I don’t know if anybody, if everybody knew that, but, um, yeah, I would say poutine because I’m Canadian. Canadian.

Vira: 5:21

Yes.

Dilyar: 5:21

So sweet Canadian. So I have to, you know, do my Canadians proud. And, um, there’s a lot of different ways you could customize poutine and you can never go wrong, especially with Costco poutine if you want something Dirty and cheap real quick. Yeah.

Vira: 5:37

So good. Yes. Americans don’t have it in the US.

Dilyar: 5:41

No way.

Vira: 5:41

Too bad. Yeah, they don’t. They have French fries. Yeah, you guys are missing. Okay. Sorting by price or sorting by relevance when you’re shopping online?

Dilyar: 5:53

When I’m shopping online, I think it really depends on what I’m shopping for, but I would definitely say shopping by relevance or popularity because I want the algorithm to do the hard work for me. I don’t want to browse through a bajillion items. I want to see what’s trending, what’s working. And then, but at the same time, I’m not a sheep. I don’t follow the crowd. You know, I like to be a little unique. So I think I take a look at, you know, relevance, popularity, and then yeah, if it’s something I really want, you know, I better should have saved up for it, you know, put some budget aside for that item.

Vira: 6:28

Okay. Smart. Smart. Okay. On that algorithm note, would you rather receive personalized product recommendation based on your browsing history or participate in a fun quiz to discover new products?

Dilyar: 6:43

Wait, sorry. What was the first part again? Apologize.

Vira: 6:46

Would you rather receive personalized product recommendation from the platform based on your previous history, or would you rather participate in a quiz to discover new products?

Dilyar: 6:59

Yeah. You know. I know there’s a big movement right now about, you know, these creepy tech companies tracking you through websites and your activity and like—

Vira: 7:10

I love it.

Dilyar: 7:11

You know, wanting to understand who you are, build a profile. Like, maybe I’m biased because I’m a marketer, but like, I’m like, okay, you know, like, you know, as long as they don’t push the limit too far. And I think that’s, you know, a debate in itself. The convenience does help a lot. And I’m a big supporter of these technologies and platforms understanding you to help you make informed decisions.’Cause one of my favorite quotes is by Henry Ford. It’s like, if I asked people what they wanted, they would ask for faster horses. But like—

Vira: 7:43

Definitely.

Dilyar: 7:44

It’s just like that. Sometimes you don’t even know what you want. So like, it’s good to have that kind of AI or tracking buddy kind of helping guide you and inform you with that decision without really making you uncomfortable or violating your privacy. But at the same time, Again, you know, being at Justuno, we’re a big advocate of our clients segmenting their lists and asking for the right questions from their clients. So yeah, so besides that laziness, I would say like also, you know, voluntarily telling the right information is also helpful. So maybe I’m in the middle.

Vira: 8:17

Awesome.

Dilyar: 8:17

At the end?

Vira: 8:18

Yeah, I’m the same probably. I love when they know all of the information about me, just like bring me the right recommendations.

Dilyar: 8:25

Exactly, yeah.

Vira: 8:26

That’s the marketer in me.

Dilyar: 8:28

Exactly right. And if you’re not sure, just ask, use just to know.

Vira: 8:32

Totally. Okay, the last one, and it’s going to be informal, but still, I’m curious to learn. If there was, like, one song playing every time you would enter the room, what would that be?

Dilyar: 8:43

Definitely not All I Want for Christmas. I don’t know why, but that’s so random. I don’t know why that song comes to mind. It’s like PTSD. I feel like hearing that even if it’s not Christmas. One song that I would love, Um, man, I would say any Queen song, but more specifically, maybe like, uh, yeah, like We Are the Champions, um, would be great.

Vira: 9:13

That’s a good one. I’ve heard this answer multiple times, but it, it’s, it’s a good one. It’s a classic, right?

Dilyar: 9:18

No, no, no, no, no. Wait, what?

Vira: 9:20

Really? Oh, come on.

Dilyar: 9:22

This is like— The Rolex marketers are just like insecure and we need a validation from Queen, you know?

Vira: 9:29

No, it’s just like a universal It’s like a universally good song. So that’s true. That’s true. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Dilyar, let’s dive in into the art of turning website traffic into like loyal customers because that’s what you guys do. I’m really glad that we were able to bring you to podcast in July because July is actually the time when like a lot of companies are like revising their strategies and a lot of companies already like preparing for Q4. So before we go there, there and like start discussing all of this strategies briefly. Again, what is Justuno and why should like people care? Like how are you different from like other conversion optimization platforms and like briefly what you guys do?

Dilyar: 10:17

Yeah, absolutely. So the easiest way to think about us is, you know, Klaviyo and all these other tools, they have a pop-up solution, but we’re a dedicated data collection and onsite personalization tool that allows you to collect the right information and push it to these other tools and supercharge tools like Klaviyo by being able to collect more data, by being able to present information in unique ways. Like really think about Justuno as like a sales associate for your website, like in-store but online, right? Someone that, you know, pops up and says hi at the right time. It’s like, hey, what would you like?

Vira: 10:59

At the right time though.

Dilyar: 11:00

Right? Yeah. Are you looking for pants or are you looking for shirts? Or like, what’s your favorite color? What is this, you know, purchase going to be? Is it for a wedding or is it for like a casual dinner? Like, it’s really someone that’s like an intelligent tool that’s, you know, really trying to understand your visitor so that they can convert whether they are a new visitor, returning visitor, or not. So yeah, in a nutshell—

Vira: 11:25

I see.

Dilyar: 11:25

Just to Know is a leading data capture and onsite conversion optimization and automation platform that supercharges Klaviyo. and other tools.

Vira: 11:34

Yeah. You, when you say like supercharges Klaviyo, that like explains a lot because like my main question and, and the question that like a lot of my clients have, like, why do we need platform like Justuno if platforms like Klaviyo or Mailchimp or other ESPs, they have this like native popup functionality built into them? Like, what’s, what’s the point? How are you guys better than native platforms?

Dilyar: 12:03

Yeah, absolutely. So we get this question a lot actually. So we are a top-tier partner of Klaviyo and, you know, for a lot of their users, we really make sense when they just want to see what other information that they can garner from their visitors and what else they could do to provide a pleasant experience. Because as you may know, you know, historically pop-ups have been a bit infamous for being annoying, you know, coming up the wrong time and like the messaging not being really Really relevant or you know really not serving the end goal of the said visitor. So we provide the right kind of solutions to to help them make that experience a little bit more relevant and pleasant to them, and provide them a more of a bespoke experience throughout their journey—not just on the website but through their email campaigns that they’re receiving. So for example, if I give you for example, let’s say I am. Coming on a, let’s say I’m trying to purchase a shoe, right? When I receive an email campaign from them, like I really want them to understand my shoe size, speak to that, my location, speak to that. I want them to, you know, for example, if I’m on the website and I’m about to leave the website, they say, wait, hold on a second. We have free shipping to Canada if you add one more item to your cart. You know, be able to really speak to things like that, I think has time after time have shown to really boost the metrics that, you know, us marketers really care about. So yeah, there’s a lot of things that, you know, that is part of this. But in terms of the metrics that we really help leveraging tools like Klaviyo, we help with average order value. You know, we help with lifetime client value, lowering cost per acquisition as well.

Vira: 14:02

Interesting.

Dilyar: 14:02

Aligning your data with, you know, your advertising platforms and your email SMS platforms. As well as, you know, reducing cart browse abandonment and so much more. So yeah, there’s a lot to that, but a lot of—

Vira: 14:18

A lot to unpack, that’s for sure. But let’s first start from that like very first stage, basically. Let’s talk about email capturing because that’s definitely like a big portion of what you guys do. That’s a big thing for us marketers. Capturing emails is is probably like one of the most critical parts of that email lifestyle journey because without emails to send to your other marketing efforts, they are worthless. From your experience, how can businesses like optimize that process of lead capture? Like from your experience, what have you seen that worked? What have you seen that not worked? I know it’s a big topic, but let’s start unpacking it because that’s why we’re here for.

Dilyar: 15:00

Yeah, absolutely. So first and foremost, well, at least at Justuno, we make it easy through what we call experiences. They’re basically like the A to Z experience of your audience, right? And there are different type of strategies, which is very similar to like your workflows in Klaviyo, right? You have your different type of flows. So Justuno really mirrors that. And so with that, we can talk about They’re organized in different type of goals. And we, for example, one way to get visitors to convert on a website would be understanding where they came from to your website, right? Before they enter your email list or SMS list. So for example, if Kim Kardashian showed off your product, when they come to the website, it should be like, hey Kim fam or Kim sisterhood or whatever they’re called, because of this you get Hey, get a free foundation included in your makeup set or whatever. Like, hey, sign up for this exclusive drop that’s coming in a month. Enter your zip code and your email and your phone number and we’ll let you know before it sells out. Or hey, like being able to really speak to that, like, hey, TikTok fans or whatever. So you can really segment, you know, divide the traffic. Speak to where the traffic came from, whether it’s organic traffic or through social media channels, paid channels, and really ensure that the messaging is unified throughout their entire experience. So let’s say going back to that Kim Kardashian example, for example, once they enter their email address, SMS, and zip code because they want to be ready for this launch, then you can speak to them in your Klaviyo campaign like, hey, TikTokers of the Kim K fan, submit your own TikTok video for Kim K Kim Kardashian and she will pick one winner. Like you’ll be able to create that messaging that specifically speaks to that, you know, TikTok audience or Instagram audience or Facebook, wherever it may be for that, right? So those tailored experiences help a lot. Now in addition to that, I mean, you know, we provide a lot of different type of formats and we can dig into this further. For example, we have things like spin to win, you know, where they can spin a wheel and it lands on a random incentive, whatever it may be, get them to, you know, share information about their interests or their, you know, location, whatever it may be. We have a mystery reveal. So, you know, for example, if you have— going back to the makeup foundation idea, let’s just say when you rub a foundation, at the bottom of the foundation, it shows you a discount code, for example. You know, you can do some cool stuff like that, like animations. Oh, cool. And we have choose your own promotion where they can select their own own random mystery gift. And there’s so many different ways to, again, be unique and stand out. And I think that’s where Just Know has really prevailed over the course of years because we provide the right tools to help you stand out and be memorable, which is becoming absolutely critical in this day and age to entice these visitors to, you know, take that leap of faith with you. And yeah, I hope that answered your question. Yeah, totally, totally.

Vira: 18:28

About that popup that targets different people based on where they’re coming from. So how does it work? I’m just curious. So say I have a homepage and I want to target and I want to create different welcome series for people who are coming from different influencers. So basically I will create 5 different popups that will be targeting people based on where they’re coming from. And all of these popups, they will be on the same page, but they will not be conflicting with each other. Am I right?

Dilyar: 18:58

Yeah, absolutely. So each of these experiences that you create that I mentioned earlier, yeah, you can ensure that they do not conflict with each other or have conflicting messaging. And it really just speaks to that specific audience in that session as well. However, sometimes you may want to couple a couple of different strategies into one session or like one experience.

Vira: 19:21

Mm-hmm.

Dilyar: 19:22

For example, you have that, hey, here’s a countdown timer, enter your information, blah, blah, blah. Right? But then they end up going and shopping or like looking around your website, but you want to entice them just one more time before they leave. So as they’re about to leave the website, you can say, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. And maybe you can embed a cool video in a pop-up form that says, whoa, hey there, how’s it going? Wait a second. Did you know blah, blah, blah? And like really engage them again and get them to stay on your website.

Vira: 19:50

Mm-hmm.

Dilyar: 19:50

Because as you know also in SEO, So the longer someone stays on your website, the higher, you know, the more SEO cookie points you’ll get. One of actually an example I could give that we actually have this case study on our website, it’s of a company, it’s a CBD brand called Cornbread Hemp. And so they actually had one of the most successful, one of the highest success rates I would say in this space. When it comes to SMS and email databases while rescuing sales from the triad of foundational promotions that they’ve already had. For example, a new visitor lead capture, an exit offer, cart abandonment, all these things that I already talked about. But what they did was they then paired these specific automation flows within their ESP to dial in the messaging based on a shopper’s behavior throughout the entire journey. Since coming to Justuno, they’ve been able to increase their email database and have increased it by like 200% and increased like their SMS by like 50%. And they’ve been able to just unify that whole experience and really, you know, really dial into, you know, from A to Z, what kind of reception that they’re getting when discovering about your product or service.

Vira: 21:40

So basically, based on where they’re coming from, what’s their search history, what’s their behavior on your website, you can target them with different offers even? Yeah, different type of coupons.

Dilyar: 21:53

That’s so cool. Incentives. Yeah. So like whatever kind of experience, again, going back to the example of like an in-person sales rep or an associate, like really getting to know them and tailoring their in-store experience to in-store experiences, it’s just like that. You know, you’ll be able to replicate replicate most of that experience via a solution like this too. Even the friendly face, right, coming up, right?

Vira: 22:22

Mm-hmm.

Dilyar: 22:22

We have what’s called— so with Justuno, I know a lot of popup solutions, they kind of, or yeah, a lot of data capture or popup solutions, they just limit it to certain screens. But with us, it’s unlimited. What that means is you could also implement a fun strategy like a choose your own journey type of adventure, right? So when they come to the website, you could be like, hey, how’s it going? Um, you know, welcome to our website. We’re really excited for you to, uh, get this, you know, product during launch. Um, what’s your name? And they can like enter their name and then it says, oh, nice to meet you. Like, um, are you here for, um, you know, are you here for our exclusive collection or are you looking for our most popular items or whatever it may be? And then whenever they click, they see a new video of you. So it really gives them that personalized—

Vira: 23:13

So cool.

Dilyar: 23:14

Yeah, like warm feeling as and like a human touch to your website. So there’s some really cool ways to explore and hack around with that.

Vira: 23:24

Is that information like recorded somewhere? Because that’s pretty much like zero-party data that is like invaluable in the industry. Like, can you say store that info somewhere in Klaviyo as a property or like how does it work?

Dilyar: 23:39

Oh, well, yeah, I’m glad you asked. So yes, I should have also said when we’re introducing Justuno, we are are a zero-party and first-party data capture platform. So what that means is when you’re leveraging JustNote, you’re billed off of monthly unique visitors because we create a profile for each visitor that’s on your website, right? And we then take this profile, this database, and allow you to collect the right information that you want to learn about them. So then you can push this data into your other marketing technology stack, like, you know, your reviews platforms, your loyalty platforms, and the other top solutions that, you know, Klaviyo also integrates with so that, you know, yeah, you can make the most out of this, you know, coveted data that you’re working with. And yeah, hopefully that answers your question.

Vira: 24:28

Yeah, definitely. It can be used for like different like series of emails, different campaigns. You can use it for segmentation purposes as well. But basically, yeah, the big goal here is to deliver the right message to the right person at the right moment. And that’s what all email marketing is about. And I’m glad that there is this possibility of collecting that zero-party data.

Dilyar: 24:49

Yeah.

Vira: 24:49

Okay, cool. So we kind of covered, we covered that initial stage of email capture, but I know that platforms like yours, you guys also help brands to increase customers’ average order value and their historical order value. What are some tried and true strategies that you can recommend?

Dilyar: 26:03

So AOVs, at least with us, it’s really about being able to effectively upsell and cross-sell, you know, the most important stage of when they are purchasing a product, right? The most common way that’s leveraged, let’s start with the basics, right? As they’re about to check out on your checkout page, like say, hey, wait a second. Did you know if you just add$20 more in items or if you add just this product, we will provide free shipping or we will enter you into a contest, right?

Vira: 26:41

Mm-hmm.

Dilyar: 26:42

that allows them to add maybe just one more item that they may not— they may have been kind of on the fence about, that they’ve been kind of, you know, considering, and potentially even, you know, an item that they may take off from their cart, right? So for example, so you can display that intelligent banner or message on the— right before they’re checking out or they’re about to leave your website altogether.

Vira: 27:07

Mm-hmm.

Dilyar: 27:07

Another type of messaging is, Hey, uh, X pairs really well with X could be another example, right? Um, you could also leverage their previous order history, like, hey, we noticed that you bought a lot of, I don’t know, floral shirts. Uh, we think you’ll really love this floral pant that will look really nice with, um, you know, the shirt that you bought last time. Like, what do you think about that, right? Um, again, going back to that in-person experience, that sales associate, same thing So as we already know, the ratio between AOV and ad spend is a percentage gauge of the profitability of your acquisition and your retention program. So with every opportunity you have to, you know, encourage them to not only add items to the cart, but also maintain them to checkout really does improve and boost your average order value. Mm-hmm. And again, we have to be really generic here because it really depends on, you know, what your brand sells or what your brand offers.

Vira: 28:08

Totally.

Dilyar: 28:09

So it’s tough for me to give you, you know, even more examples than some of these. But, you know, that’s also, you know, that’s why you should, you know, connect with Flowium and tell them, hey, I want an audit from you guys and Justuno and like create a bespoke strategy for me. You know, we’ll be able to do things like that that would make sense.

Vira: 28:29

And I’m glad that you mentioned it, Delia, because we actually have this special link that we guys will talk about it later as well. But since we’re talking about it now, we have a special link, justuno.com/flowium. That’s basically a link that you can follow and Justuno with Flowium will do like a free audit of your list growth for you. And yeah, Dilyar, you can probably say more about it.

Dilyar: 28:56

Yeah, absolutely. So we’ll be collaborating with Flowium to really take a look at your entire visitor journey of your clients and your visitors, and really touch on the metrics I mentioned earlier and create this bespoke strategy, action items for you to then you can go and execute yourself or leverage Flowium’s team to execute for you to see what you could be missing out. Because again, in a conversation like this, since there’s just so much that we do, it’s tough to just cater it to just one vertical because it really does look different depending on industry to industry. Now, one thing that’s universal that, you know, for us typically that, you know, yields about 30%+ conversion rate, engaged conversion rate, is our product recommendation engine that’s, you know, different from what you may get from your e-commerce, you know, platform by default. So our intelligent product recommendation engine really tracks their visitor, this visitor’s historic data and their current experience that they’ve, you know, opted in on your website and them these recommendations live on the website through like a carousel or through like a slide-out. So there’s different ways to, you know, recommend the product that we are pretty confident that they will like. And that’s why we’re able to, you know, get conversion rates like 30% when the usual conversion rates are around like 5-10% at the max. Another really cool thing that we offer is for those that are on like Shopify and BigCommerce, ecommerce, um, we’re also able to show a message that allows them to do like a one-click, um, cart checkout. So we love that because, you know, uh, we could say, hey, you’ve, you purchased this before, you’re a VIP guest, add this to your cart instantly with just one button and we’ll send it to you for free, just pay for shipping or whatever. And now you have their, you know, address and you have all this other data you could work with. So there’s a lot of ways to kind of play with that as well.

Vira: 31:02

Yeah. And I think on your website, correct me if I’m wrong, I think on your website it says that you basically have like 2 different types of like upselling, cross-selling sort of like promotions. One is like based on targeting rules that you can set yourself and another one is based on AI-powered features, right? Yes, that’s correct. So like, that’s what you mentioned, this like AI-powered feature is basically based on like previous history, based on like popularity of the product and stuff like that, right?

Dilyar: 31:35

Yeah. And like what they, how they’ve been segmented, like which, you know, what type of audience they are. We’re really taking a look at the data that we’ve collected and, you know, that also what we know about them through Klaviyo’s side of things as well. And you could also, you know, understand what on average, like how much this visitor purchases from your website.

Vira: 32:00

Mm.

Dilyar: 32:01

Are they buying a lot? Like, are they frequently buying things under$50? You know, they bought it from you 3, 4 times. Like maybe offer them something more expensive as a gift and like say, hey, treat yourself or whatever. Or like maybe you have their birthday collected through Justuno. It’s like, hey, your birthday is like 2 months away. Oh, so it’s actually a really cool campaign too. Like for example, in Klaviyo, you can run a campaign and say, Hey, your birthday is a month away. Come to our website and treat yourself, right? And when they click the link and they come to your website, be like, hooray, you’re here. Yes, we can’t wait to celebrate your birthday with you. Come get this expensive item and we’ll give you this bundled into it, or we’ll give you 10% off, or we’ll give you free shipping, or we’ll, you know, like whatever it may be, the incentive, like you’ll be able to have that consistent messaging throughout their experience. experience as well. That’s nice. And experiment with pricing too, to see if they will finally buy something more costly.

Vira: 33:01

No, I love, I love that idea of like cross-selling and upselling different products to different people. In fact, there is like one case study that I really liked on your website. It’s from the company called Natural Solutions. I think they are like a CBD shop or something. They basically wanted to increase their average order value and optimize their conversion rate. And for CBD retailers, it’s like pretty hard to get that people get that traffic to the website because they are very limited with like advertisement options. And I really love what they’ve done with like upsell, cross-sell. Do you remember that case study or do you want me to sort of like go over it?

Dilyar: 33:47

Oh yeah, if you could go over it, that’d be awesome.

Vira: 33:49

Hearing coming from Yeah, no, I just like really love that basically, yeah, as I already said, for them, their existing traffic was very valuable. I mean, it’s always valuable, but for people like brands who are like CBD retailers, this is like extra special. So cross-selling was like literally the best fit for their brand since their products are like relatively equal in price and point and using them in combination with other products from the website, they were able to boost customers’ sales. What they also did, they basically at the checkout, they started promoting CBD products for pets for people who specifically visited the pet collection but haven’t purchased anything from that collection. And for other group of people who didn’t express any interest in that pet products, they promoted, I think, something like on-the-go CBD gummies or something like that. So they had like different offers for different groups of people at the checkout based on like what the system basically knows about the customers. So I think it was pretty cool. Yeah.

Dilyar: 35:07

And stuff like these, y’all, like, you know, you can’t expect yourself to like magically come up with inspiration, right? And like at the same time, I think more so than ever in this economy, like you cannot take a passive seat. You really have to be proactive and try and try and test these type of different type of strategies to see what works. And like if you don’t know, like we said, you know, there are people there that can help you like through our audit But, you know, in terms of experimenting as well, like, Justuno believes in this so much so that with us, you can not only do an A/B test, which is, you know, a typical term, but you can do A, B, C, D, E, F test. So you can do 6 different variants and test different strategies to see, you know, what sticks with your audience as well. Like a multi. And, you know, like any other marketers, you know, can agree with, you know, You won’t know what you don’t know unless you just experiment with it. Yeah. One other cool idea with this also that helped increase average order value is one of our other clients called Jackpot Candles. They had, in about 8 weeks, they had like 2,000 Vitters uptick. They’re like a growing smaller brand and all they wanted was they wanted people’s Instagram handles. And so they using Justuno, they asked for their Instagram handles and, you know, 30% of them were like qualified buyers that entered their full information. And, you know, they selected these visitors as like winners. And when they came back to the website in their future visits, they were able to speak to that contest as well and really offer that bespoke offer for them.

Vira: 36:51

That’s cool. How do you normally, like, where do you store that data? Say customers coming to your website, they’re giving you through some sort of like an email or like an opt-in form, they’re giving you their Instagram handle, what happens next?

Dilyar: 37:06

Yeah. So all that data gets captured within our own database. And then from there, you can export it to other platforms. You can import any data that might be missing through your other technology tools. So yeah, within Justuno.

Vira: 37:22

Yeah. Yeah. I think you guys, I just like read it on your case studies as well that one of your clients actually integrated Gather. Gatsby, Klaviyo, Shopify, and Justuno. And I think this is like a very powerful combo. And by the way, guys, if you want to listen to the episode we recorded with Gatsby, it’s episode number 121. We will link it in the description box as well. There are like some powerful stuff that you can do with those like Instagram handles and—

Dilyar: 37:50

Gatsby is awesome. Yeah.

Vira: 37:51

Yeah. They’re awesome. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Okay, cool. So we kind of covered email. We covered like Instagram, we covered like average order value. What about SMS? SMS is such a hot topic right now in terms of like growing SMS lists. How does Justuno help businesses achieve this goal? And like, how, how can you like help businesses grow their SMS list faster?

Dilyar: 38:19

Yeah, well, first and foremost, Justuno, you know, obviously works with Klaviyo. SMS as well, which is a huge push for them and they’ve been doing a really good job at. But we also natively integrate with, you know, other top SMS providers as well. So that allows us to really have this thought leadership on exactly, you know, how we can really entice visitors to give their coveted phone number, you know, the form that they don’t want to, you know, get spammed by in the form of communication. So first and foremost, you have your foundational, you have your 2-step form. So funny enough, we realized that it seems logical for, you know, to know, but a lot of brands actually what they do is they ask for their email and their phone number within the same screen. And that’s a huge no-no because people are just so turned off. It’s a big no-no. Yeah. They get so unmotivated by the amount of information they have to collect.

Vira: 39:18

But that’s what I thought at the beginning. You know what? Like, first when they introduced the— when they introduced this, like, function, I was like, why would you add, like, an additional step? It’s better to get it done all in, like, one step. They, they tell you, like, in marketing world, like, make it as simple, like, as many— as little steps as possible. But we turned it— we, like, tested it gazillion times from, like, different platforms, Attentive, Klaviyo, all that, all that, uh, tests we’ve done, 2 times or like 2-step forms always win. It’s just like, it’s so interesting, right?

Dilyar: 39:53

Yeah. That 2-step, it’s becoming more of like its own buzz term now. But yeah, for, for those that don’t know, okay, we’re not making fun of you. Don’t worry about it.

Vira: 40:02

Everybody’s done that. I’ve been there, done that.

Dilyar: 40:04

Right? But like how it would look is like, say, hey, uh, welcome. Uh, we would love to offer you some really cool stuff. Just enter your email and they enter it. The next screen be like, oh, perfect. Um, did you know even better than that, um, we will give you 50% off your next order? Or again, uh, we will add you to this contest, this weekly contest that we have. Or we’ll give you free shipping on your first order. Just send us text. We won’t spam you, we promise. That in itself will allow you to capture both of that information. And even if they don’t give you their SMS SMS, you at least have their email now, right? So you’re already into the next step.

Vira: 40:45

Totally, totally. We were even like comparing the conversion of like email plus SMS one-step form versus email form. When you don’t have that second part of the form, it converts so much better. You don’t want to discourage your customers with this like long forms, right? You want to make it easy for them. And I like your idea of like giving them like different offer for like specifically for SMS subscribers. Because SMS subscribers is like, it’s pretty much like your VIP people, right? Yeah. It’s like, so it’s so much easier to get an email from a person compared to like a phone number. So that’s, that’s huge.

Dilyar: 41:23

Speaking of VIP, I wanna touch on that real quick as well. Um, actually before I do, yeah, so like more importantly, like, you know, you wanna, you wanna count your blessings and collect whatever information they’re, you know, um, excited to collect and, uh, just separate it a little bit. And they will, you know, follow follow the bait per se. You know, but yes, SMS. So another cool way actually our clients leverage us is through what we call a tap to text. So on mobile devices, and I believe on desktop as well, whenever they click on”Hey, text me,” the the messaging app will pop up. I believe on computer, iMessage comes up for Apple computers, and like WhatsApp or something else comes up for desktop. I forgot, but at least on mobile when you have, you know, a— Yeah, a pop-up feature. Yeah, a pop-up for mobile only. You know, again, you don’t want it to be a full-screen pop-up because then you get dinged on SEO and it gets annoying and blah, blah, blah. But like just a small slide-out that says, hey, join our VIP list ahead of this Black Friday, Cyber Monday ahead of time. Send us your phone number and we will send you exclusive items that we’re not selling anywhere else. You know, it’s like stuff like that or like we’ll give you priority priority over our limited item is something that I think would be very enticing as well. But yeah, you want to make it as frictionless as possible for them.

Vira: 42:45

Totally. Totally. Yeah. You want them almost like feel like they are getting that white glove service from you because they volunteered their phone number to you. That’s what we try to do with all of our clients.

Dilyar: 42:58

So that you don’t let them down.

Vira: 43:00

Right. That’s a big one. That’s a big one. It’s like an email in the’90s. Yeah. I wonder what’s going to be the next big thing. But yeah, we normally do give, like, who knows?

Dilyar: 43:11

You want access to my brain? Direct communication with me? Okay.

Vira: 43:16

Oh, they’re going to have to give me, like, a really good offer for that. Really good offer. Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dilyar. Before we, like, wrap up this episode really quickly. If you could summarize the actionable, like, recommendations for people to, like, improve their conversion, for brands to improve their conversion, what’s your actionable advice here?

Dilyar: 43:44

Yeah, like super rapid fire, very quickly.

Vira: 43:47

Totally. Let’s do this.

Dilyar: 43:49

So get your list and notepad ready, y’all, if you haven’t already. Because if you weren’t paying attention, this is the part that you want to pay attention All right, number one, always get a third party or someone else to take a look at your work and review it, right? Doesn’t matter if you’re a veteran marketer or a CEO that’s been doing millions and millions of dollars in revenue from nothing. Doesn’t matter, right? Always, it’s always helpful to get someone like Flowium or Just a Note to give you that second opinion and take a look at that visitor experience to see what kind of, you know, actionable insight they can provide from working with brands just like yourself day in and out, right? So number one, don’t be afraid to get second opinion, um, more so than ever, especially in this economy. Um, second, do not spam and show messaging at the right time. Imagine you walk into a store and they’re like, you know that, uh, those seagulls from Finding Nemo? It’s like, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine.

Vira: 44:47

Yes.

Dilyar: 44:47

They’re just like coming up. Hi, hi, hi, discount, discount, discount. It’s like you’re really going to get them, you know, you’re going to desensitize them from that experience. And they’re just, you know, they’re just not going to listen. They’re just going to close off everything and like never visit you again, right?

Vira: 45:02

Yeah.

Dilyar: 45:03

3, be unique and memorable, y’all. Like we cannot express this enough. Don’t be afraid to try something new. Go back to that human element and really, you know, look at your campaigns from their lens to see if it is something that’s exciting exciting and memorable, right? Like that spin-to-win, that gamification that we talked about, or click to reveal, or a small slide-out, or a banner instead of like a one full-screen banner. Speaking of which, we typically actually recommend not using, not interrupting their entire experience by having a full-screen message come up, but there are specific scenarios where these can be very effective, right? If you’re using a video and it’s just like saying, hey, sorry to interrupt your, uh, you know, your experience, but, um, we actually, uh, will be coming to Canada soon, or UK, or Australia, uh, whatever it is. Enter your zip code and when we arrive, we’re gonna make sure that you get this, you know, again, X incentive, right? Um, collect the information like zip codes, you know, product preferences, whatever it is ahead of time. But when you interrupt interrupt them, make sure it’s worth it. Another rule of thumb is dynamic content. We love this at Justuno. So within the popup itself, you’re able to customize their messaging. For example, if you imported data from Klaviyo into Justuno, you could say, hey Rebecca, or hey Bob, welcome back to our website.

Vira: 46:35

Aw.

Dilyar: 46:35

We noticed that you are a VIP client from us, and you could really speak to them. And so try dynamic content. content if your solution supports that or not. So that’s a really cool thing that Justuno does as well. Experiment with different devices, have different messaging for iPads, desktops, and mobile screens as well. Again, super important. Yeah, the vibe is different, y’all. The vibe is different on those. Totally. I don’t know about you, but when I’m on my phone, I’m usually chilling on my sofa and probably will make more bad decisions like impulse purchase than I will when I’m in front of a computer. So true.

Vira: 47:12

I never thought I’ve never thought about it.

Dilyar: 47:14

Yes, exactly, right? So like make that messaging more relevant for them. And more, and even more important than all of these is create a plethora of segments, right? Create different type of profiles or audience types and see which one engages with your content the most, which one converts the most. And yeah, really look into your data. And yeah, lastly, continuously test and get better. Dig deep into your data, y’all, and never stop testing. So yeah, I hope those were all really cool actionable insights for y’all. So good. I love how you summarized it.

Vira: 47:54

Yeah, totally. And I especially love that first part about like doing an audit sometimes or like letting someone from outside to take a look at your strategy to pinpoint on what can be improved. And again, the link is just, you know, Egos re-crushed with that. Totally. Yeah. So you guys, justuno.com/flowium. Just like follow that link. And if you want us to take a quick look on your list and to give you like a free audit on list growth, basically, definitely follow that link. You’ll see more information there. Yeah. Dilyar, thank you so much. It was so much fun having you on this podcast. Thank you so much. Yeah, we’d like— we’d love to have you again on our podcast someday. It was so much fun talking to you. Thank you so much.

Dilyar: 48:44

Thank you so much, Vira. Imposter syndrome no more. Woohoo! Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you so much, Flowium. Y’all are the best. One of my favorite partners to work with as well. And yeah, cheers to your continued success and brace yourself for these holidays ahead, y’all. It’s gonna be one fun, wild ride again. And I hope even if one of these things helps you, please message me back and tell me, you know, email me at dilyar@justdo.com. Because if you give feedback like this, I could probably ask for a raise more confidently next time. Be like, look, help me out. I’m just teasing. Thanks, everybody.

Vira: 49:25

Awesome. Thanks, everybody. We’ll hope to have you back, everybody. next Tuesday. Bye.

Dilyar: 49:29

Cheers. Bye.