#88. Email Accessibility with Megan Boshuyzen | Podcast

Alissa: 0:16

Today’s episode is going to be freaking awesome because we’ve never talked about this topic before. So this is like fresh, exciting and so, so, so important. Hello. Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode here at Email Einstein. Vira and Alissa here, plus one. We’re really excited. We love having guests on our podcast. So this is really exciting. But as always, we start off with Vira and I. We are two email marketers at an email marketing agency called Flowium. We are super passionate about email marketing and because we love what we do, we want to share our insights with you. Flowium is one of the fastest growing email marketing agencies in the world. We specialize in providing a premium, full service, e commerce email marketing experience for all of our clients. And our service is tailored specifically for your business and designed to help increase your online retail revenue. We deliver the right message to the right person at the right moment. That’s what we’re all about here at Flowium. And yeah, I’m excited. Today’s episode is going to be freaking awesome because we’ve never talked about this topic before. So this is like fresh, exciting and so, so, so important. Yeah, Vira, what are we talking about today?

Vira: 1:43

And before we go and introduce our amazing today, here are some fun facts for you just to think about. So today we will be talking about accessibility, right? And over 1 billion people in the world are estimated to live with some sort of disability. That’s approximately 15% of the world’s population. To break down the little further, at least 2, 2 million people in US have some level of vision impairment. I think this number is actually even higher. And some have severe vision difficulties, some have moderate. Also, like 65% of people who are like an older generation, they do have some sort of like hearing loss. And that’s like another number to think about. And globally, 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women experience some level of colorblindness. The good news is I bet most of you never thought about it. But the good news is you can actually accommodate this big amount of people. You can actually accommodate those group of people in your emails. And that’s exactly what we will be talking about today with our Guest. Alissa, let’s do the guest intro. Finally.

Alissa: 2:53

Gosh, Megan’s probably like, can I talk now? You guys talk so much. So I just kind of spoiled the surprise. But today we have Megan Boshuyzen. Did I say it right?

Megan: 3:04

Yes, you did it.

Alissa: 3:06

Yes, yes, yes, yes. If you. You guys will see her last name, like when you’re looking at the name of the podcast episode. So I just. Not to toot my own horn, but I just crushed it. So let’s just.

Megan: 3:16

And actually, you did crush it.

Alissa: 3:19

So I think you. You mentioned this fun fact, unspam, which we’ll talk about more as well. Your UNSPAM talk, which was Boshuyzen, is actually old Dutch, and it means Forest House, right?

Megan: 3:31

Yes. Yeah.

Alissa: 3:32

Okay, cool. Yes. I am killing it. I remember all the facts.

Megan: 3:36

Very impressed. Wow.

Alissa: 3:39

So just so you guys know Megan and I, so this is Alissa speaking, but Megan and I, we met actually at the end of January of this year at unspam, which is basically a conference for lots of email geeks. So Megan is an email geek like Vira and I, which is really exciting. But she did an incredible talk on email accessibility. And it’s funny because at Flowium, we do have some best practices around email accessibility, like including alt text and different things that we’ll talk about more today. But it’s not something that we ever really like. It’s just something that we’ve done but never really realized, like, how profoundly important it is to incorporate into your email marketing. So when Megan did her talk at UNSPAM afterwards, I was like, oh, dang. Like, we’ve been overlooking this major component of email marketing that’s actually really crucial to making sure that we’re sending the right message to the right person at the right time, but also just making sure that we’re making emails accessible to everybody that we’re sending to. So it just goes back to improving the customer journey, regardless of what industry that customer is being a customer in, whether it’s service industry or E commerce or whatever it is. So Megan is a senior developer at it’s PathWire. Right. Megan and I mean, we’ll talk a little bit more to get to know you more about, like, your experience and everything. But thank you so much for being on with us today. I know you’re super busy and you’ve got a lot going on, but we really appreciate it, you taking the time out to come and talk with us and everybody else about accessibility. So thank you. Thank you very much.

Megan: 5:03

Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m really excited to geek out about this.

Alissa: 5:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And as always, before we get started, we love our blitz Q and A. So, Vira, you want to start us? Megan, are you ready? It’s like a quick, like, just like first. First answer that question.

Vira: 5:19

First thing that comes to your mind. Yeah. Okay. Megan, east coast or west coast?

Megan: 5:22

East.

Alissa: 5:23

Oh, yes.

Vira: 5:24

Texting or talking?

Megan: 5:26

Oh, gosh. Texting.

Vira: 5:28

Yes. 100%.

Alissa: 5:30

Same same.

Vira: 5:31

Early bird or night owl?

Megan: 5:33

Early bird.

Alissa: 5:34

Love it. Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Megan: 5:37

Oh, yes, in my soccer playing days. In my soccer playing days, yes.

Alissa: 5:44

Okay.

Megan: 5:45

Wearing your soccer socks with your Adidas sandals before and after the game.

Vira: 5:50

Yeah, that’s a look. That’s a look. That’s for sure.

Alissa: 5:52

That is. That is. And then this is the last one. This is like a really silly one, Megan. So we’ll give context behind it afterwards. Mattress or socks?

Megan: 6:01

Wait, what was that first word?

Alissa: 6:03

Mattress or socks?

Megan: 6:04

Mattress or socks? Yeah, one is not like the other. I’m gonna say mattress. Yes.

Alissa: 6:11

Okay, cool. So just so you know, in the past, whenever, I mean, for our podcast episodes, whenever we give examples of, like, customer journeys, for whatever reason, we would always talk about a mattress customer journey, like if you’re buying a mattress versus if you’re buying socks and how they’re different. And it just ended up being this crazy thing. Now we socks like it spiraled out of control. So that’s what we ask all of our guests whenever they’re on as part of their blitz Q and A. So mattress. Mattress is a very popular answer. So, yeah, I love it. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, so let’s start with, like, the really juicy stuff. So tell us a little bit more about yourself, Megan, because obviously we talked about how we met and stuff, but what is your story?

Megan: 7:27

Oh, my gosh, my story. Okay, so short version of my story, because it is a story. So I’ve been flirting around, like the edges of email. Starting back in like 2008 is when I designed my first email. I went to school for graphic design, so that’s how I got to where I am now kind of. And I would design emails in my first graphic design internship and then send them off to the web people for coding and they’d go out. I didn’t know how the emails would get made. I just designed them in Photoshop and send them off from there. After I graduated college around this was back in 2010, my first job was actually as a part time web developer at a little local company in western Massachusetts. And I also had to design and send out marketing emails. And I remembered designing these emails again in Photoshop and I’d slice them up total image emails. Didn’t know the first thing about email marketing and just knew I had to design and send these things out. And I remember trying to code them myself and I’d only have Gmail tested because that’s the email account I had. QA software wasn’t the thing. I knew literally zero about email marketing and I remember hating it. I get these gaps between my images. Why is this happening today? I know why they happen. I’m like, why is this happening? Nothing looks right. I hate email. I hate email marketing. I’m never going to do this ever again. So I continue on. I’m doing graphic design, mix of print and digital stuff. Email is part of those responsibilities too. And at that point I kind of start getting into like the strategy part a little bit. I spend time putting together like I was working for the car industry at the time. So It’d be like 40 different brands, two newsletters each all going on out within the first two weeks of the month on top of like 200 web ads that I had to put together. Those email graphics were designed in indesign and we would just throw those into emails and send them out. And towards the end of my tenure at that job, I kind of started seeing the power of email. And as the ESP we you used was rolling out new features like targeting and things like that, I started kind of seeing the gear, started kind of going a little bit and I started seeing how it could be beneficial. And I was like, okay, this email thing seems like it could be kind of cool, but I still don’t want to code. I don’t want anything to do with coding it. It’s just so fun. Right? Fast forward to 2017. I started a job at a nonprofit as a web and email person. Two jobs in one. It was like, grow in one direction, we’ll hire the other side. I was like, okay, I’m going to grow in the web direction. Well, hire on email side. And that is not what happened at all? So I got into the email stuff. I started coding for email. We had all custom HTML templates for mailchimp, so that’s what I had to dive into. So when changes need to be made, I had to kind of just go in feet to the fire, figure it out. So I ended up growing that email program immensely from pretty much all angles. And I was handling email pretty much from beginning to end besides writing the copy, because we had a lot of copywriters on staff.

Alissa: 10:38

Wow.

Megan: 10:39

Yeah. So it was a lot of newsletters and driving all of that sort of thing. And from there, once I kind of started thinking about my next career step, I realized I actually loved email development. I thought it was a great area to problem solve because email development is just like, just so unique. You have all these different random constraints. Your email can look differently in different places. There are like, no standards. Well, there are some standards, but not as many as web. And it just. I felt in love with it. I love pretty much all aspects of email, but development is where my heart really kind of started going to 10 years later, literally from when I was like, I hate email development. I never want to do it again. So now today, I’m the senior email developer at Pathwire, which is super awesome. The three brands that people might know from Pathfinder. Because a lot of people like, what’s Pathwire? The three brands you might recognize from there is mailgun, which is an SMTP API stuff, mailjet, which is an email service provider, and Email and Asset, which is your Q4 way stuff. So, yeah, I handle emails for all three brands. Wow. And it’s been really. I’ve been there for like seven or eight months now. It’s been pretty amazing.

Alissa: 12:25

And our team uses email on acid, like, all the time.

Megan: 12:28

All the time.

Vira: 12:29

Yeah.

Megan: 12:30

Yeah. It’s so great. Yeah.

Vira: 12:32

We’ve probably seen you in our inboxes. I just didn’t know it was you.

Megan: 12:35

Oh, yes, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Vira: 12:39

That’s awesome. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Tell us a bit more about email accessibility. Honestly, as I said, that’s not something that many of us think about. And why should it even be on your radar? Like, I know that, like, a lot of people, in fact, like 61 million Americans have physical or mental disabilities. Like, some temporary, some permanent. But thing that we don’t think about is actually that those people, they do have the spending power estimated at, like, globally at$8 trillion, like, if we talk globally. So, like, what are the other reason. Why should Email accessibility be on your radar at all? And first of all. And what is email accessibility?

Megan: 13:20

Yeah, so email accessibility is just making sure that your email can be read by the widest audience possible. So that means, you know, people who may be colorblind, they may have low vision, maybe they have limited mobility, either permanently or temporarily, they might have a learning disability or, you know, cognitive things going on. So it’s really just making sure that we can communicate with the largest amount of people possible. Because like you said, there’s a lot of, you know, buying power there that you might miss out on. And I think it’s just part of being a good human to be able to communicate with your audience. They’re on your list for a reason. So communicate with them.

Vira: 14:02

It’s just like, I never thought about it this way because emails are so, like, visual. Right? So I never, like, thought about it, like, from that angle.

Alissa: 14:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love the, like, just be a good human. Communicate with people correctly.

Megan: 14:18

Right. Email’s a communication tool. So, you know, talk or type to people.

Vira: 14:23

Right.

Alissa: 14:23

What would you say are, like, the top three, like, biggest benefits, I guess, for businesses specifically, right. To consider email accessibility? Like, what would you say, like, makes the most sense? Or for someone who’s kind of like a business owner, for example, who’s like, yeah, you know, I’m not sure I want to invest a lot of time or money or energy into this. Like, where are the perks? Like, what would you say?

Megan: 14:43

Yeah, well, it will definitely help your conversions because more people will be able to purchase your product. It’ll really importantly help keep you out of legal water because of the ada, especially in the United States. I’m sure there are other laws on the books in other countries. It gives your customer a better experience. And that customer experience, in my opinion, is, you know, just as important as the conversion. Because if people don’t have a good experience, they’re not going to convert. So they kind of go hand in hand, right?

Vira: 15:14

Yeah, yeah, it’s conversion, but it also, like, helps you to, like, represent. Represent your entire audience. Right. To be more. More inclusive. That’s awesome. So let’s talk, like, in depth about, like, designs for visually impaired people. What are, like, the few things that you should consider when designing emails for, like, that group of people or like, when designing emails in generally, what are the top things that you should consider?

Megan: 15:38

Yeah, so I always say that, you know, with designing good emails with accessibility in mind, many times just means following really good design practices. So that means not. Not hitting your audience with, you know, big blocks of text, breaking up your information with things like images and headers. One thing I like to do is if you look at an email design and either squint or zoom it way out and when you do that, can you still see the structure of the email? So that can be like seeing that there’s an image there. With. With heading is usually bigger text within your regular size text. And can you still kind of see what’s going on? That usually means you’re following some. Okay, enough design principles. Yeah. And another always tell people to do is for your CTAs, your call to actions to make sure that those are buttons instead of just, you know, plain text. Unless it’s just the text link in the body. Those are always good to have. And to also the other main major thing I always tell people, because this is one of the design principles, not really design principles, but good practice on the web in general is to make sure your font size is big enough. Yeah. So like you’ll see a lot of times some emails, they’ll have like 12 to 14 pixel body text, which even with just our high resolution displays today can look really, really small. I would suggest going anywhere between 16 and 21 pixel font size depending on what you’re using. It can vary since typefaces are different sizes. And yeah, to do you know, all that, which I just feel like I just went on a like, word, like vomit. Just talking about a bunch of things. Yeah, those are like the major things that I always talk about. So.

Alissa: 17:33

And Megan, don’t feel bad about that because there’s a lot, right. There’s like a lot to dive into. There’s so many aspects of it. So there are a few like, particulars that we want to dive into a little bit more because sometimes it’s a bit confusing for people who don’t know a lot about it. Right. So I love like the zooming in, zooming out, like size of text is super important because you have clients who want to squeeze in like so so much text and it’s like eight point and you’re like, dude, like I can’t read this with a microscope. You know, like, this is not going to work. But what about like color choices? Like use of color? Like what would you say about that in terms of like diving deep into that?

Megan: 18:08

Yeah, I think using color is great. It’s another way to differentiate, say headers and body text. You do need to be mindful of your color combinations because as mentioned before, I think it’s like 1 in 8 men have some sort of colorblindness. 1 in 200 women have some sort of colorblindness. So you want to make sure that people can still read your emails regardless of your color choice. 1 or. I guess the major example that comes into mind is that the most common version of colorblindness is red green, which when are those two colors using Used a lot during winter holidays. So it’s like you need to then be mindful what your email designs look like to make sure that people can still differentiate between different design elements, you know, depending on how those colors stack. So, yeah, those are the things like, keep in mind. Yeah, that’s huge.

Alissa: 19:01

So like, yeah, that’s a good example. Holiday emails, like Christmas emails. So you have to be very careful about going overboard with the red green combo, because people are going to be like, I don’t know what this is, like, I’m out of here kind of thing, when Christmas is really a time where people really want to push. So. Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Wow, that’s so insightful. I love that. Thank you for saying that’s huge.

Megan: 19:22

Yeah, yeah. That’s wild.

Vira: 19:23

It’s interesting.

Megan: 19:24

Yeah. So like red, greens, big blue, yellow is another big color blindness. And then, you know, they’re just the complete. Yeah, yeah. Which I didn’t realize.

Vira: 19:33

Remember that, like, dress meme like, few years ago? Is that like, is it a gold or blue each other for that freaking dress? Now it makes sense, right?

Megan: 19:46

Feel traumatized by that.

Vira: 19:50

That’s interesting. Are there any, like, tools that can help you with that? Like color choices or. There are just like a set of rules that you can follow.

Megan: 20:00

Maybe there’s like a set of rules to follow. WebAIM, which I don’t know if people say WebAIM or WebAIM, that’s like the big online sort of consortium for web accessibility. They have a contrast checker that you can check your foreground color against your background color to make sure that your colors are accessible and there’s enough contrast so that people who are colorblind can read like your CTA is. Okay. You can check for different types of colorblindness in email on acid. So that’s there for while you’re doing your QA checks.

Alissa: 20:37

That’s good to know.

Megan: 20:39

Yeah. Yeah. And if you’re an email developer, the email or HTML editor, which is specific to email development, Parcel, which is what I use, just launched recently, some accessibility tools so that you can check everything in there. And it does have a colorblind checker and you can see what it looks like in a couple of different, different. A few of those combinations to see how your email looks with your color essentially removed. So there are definitely ways to check. Yeah, yeah.

Vira: 21:08

I like Megan, how you summarize that modern clean design. Any like, good email practices are actually good for like visually impaired as well. And that like, makes total sense to me. Yeah. Can you like tell us a bit more about. I know there’s like this tools that are called screen readers. Do you know anything about them? Like what are they and like how are they used? And like why are they used.

Megan: 21:32

Yeah, so screen readers essentially retext for people with a low vision. Apple has their default one called Voiceover and you can use it on their Apple like MacBooks and iMacs and whatnot, the computers and on their mobile devices. So essentially how that one works is on the computer you can highlight your text and it’ll read out what it says. On the iPhones, you tap on whatever element you want it to read and it’ll read out, you know, whatever you’ve tapped. On the side note, I was playing with Voiceover this morning on my phone and it was. It’s really difficult for somebody who like can read okay on the phone to use sometimes. But I actually worked at Apple in a past lifetime and I used to watch people with low vision come into our stores and just like fly through the iPhone using Voiceover and the other accessibility issues with like just such precision that it was kind of amazing. Yeah. To watch people use these tools. But yeah, the voice, the voiceover, it’ll just. It reads out what’s in your email. And there are a whole host of different screen readers on the Windows side. One of the more popular one is called Jaws. Windows does have a default one called Narrator. That’s pretty new. So I don’t think it’s used as widely. But yeah, that’s my very rambly answer of that. It reads your emails and other things on the web device.

Alissa: 23:00

I need to try that one day. I want to see what it’s like. Because it’s important. Right. Like it helps you understand like what the actual customer’s experience is with your emails. Yeah. Wow, interesting.

Vira: 23:09

So you said that you need to sort of like a highlight the text, Right? It has to be the text. The image like, or the text on the image wouldn’t work. Right. So we need to rely more on like images on text, Is that what you’re saying?

Megan: 23:22

Yeah. So if you have all your text in an image, unless you have alt text there, it’s not. It’s not going to read the text in. It’s not going to read the text in your image. What I haven’t tested out yet. This is like a totally. I don’t know if it’s a thing and I should definitely try it. Apple does have that new feature where it will take text on an image and make it like text I had. I don’t know if that works in email in their mail app. I have seen it work with images sent to me via text. It’s really, really cool. I don’t know if that works with email yet. Something to test out or if somebody else wants to test it out and let me know. I’m totally game for that too. But yeah, I don’t know if that will affect things. But yeah, in general, any text that’s in an image will not be read. So that can be a big problem if you have important information in an image. So I see.

Alissa: 24:17

Which is. This is funny because this leads into like our next like thing that we were going to talk about, which is alt text. So for the purposes of screen readers and everything, like altogether alt text is, I mean, obviously crucial for someone who needs their emails read out to them so that they can understand how the email is, I guess, separated where there are parts of the copy that’s like this is grouped together. This is grouped together like that kind of thing. Okay. With the screen readers, do they say like image of blah, blah, blah, blah, or does it just strictly depend on what it is in the alt text behind the image?

Megan: 24:49

Screen readers will announce if there’s an image and read the and then read the alt text. There are a lot of different schools of thought about how you should write your alt text. Well, it’s something I go back and forth on all the time. Some people will say you should describe exactly what’s in the image. So if you say you have. I guess I’ll go with the example of like the kind of funny woman eating a salad while smiling image that people like to make fun of from stock photos. So it’s like say you have a picture of a woman at a table, smiling, eating a salad and you put that as your alt text. Like if it’s not crucial to the message being given to me, that might. Or I guess not to me. But to some people that’s not as helpful as describing like the spirit of the image of what you’re trying to get across. So like some people will describe the image exactly. So woman in a striped shirt and is holding a fork or Something like that while eating a salad or someone might do. Or maybe this email, since we’re using that image is maybe it’s about a cafe. So maybe the alt text instead is about whatever the messaging from the cafe is like, I don’t know, like half off lunch or whatever, which would probably be bad alt text, but something like that. Yeah, just like the spirit of the email’s message rather than like exact description of the image. But it’s very contextual. People have all sorts of opinions on it. And yeah, I have found Twitter to be a great place to go to find those discussions. So I really do encourage people if you’re on Twitter to head there to find those conversations because they’re really insightful.

Vira: 26:34

Interesting.

Alissa: 26:35

So is there like a wrong? I guess the wrong is just not doing it right.

Megan: 26:39

Yeah, I would say the wrong is just not doing it. Okay, okay. Yeah, like definitely do alt text.

Alissa: 26:45

Okay.

Megan: 26:45

Regardless.

Alissa: 26:46

So there’s no true like right or wrong way on how to write. It depends on, I guess, your goals, what you think, any discussions that you review or anything. But the wrong thing to do is just not doing it at all. Which I think most people who are pretty well versed in the email marketing world know. But for some reason I feel like it’s still a miss in a lot of emails that I get.

Megan: 27:05

So it definitely is a miss a lot of times. The only time I would say to not use alt text is if you’re using an image purely, purely, purely for decoration. So maybe you’re using an image to get like a decorated border that doesn’t need any alt text because strings, lights. Yeah, right. It’s not important to the email unless you really need to indicate that maybe you’re separating, you know, two blog articles from each other.

Alissa: 27:33

Okay.

Megan: 27:33

A decorative image generally does not need alt text.

Vira: 27:37

Right. Are there any like brands that you like that are doing a good job when it comes to this? Accessible designs?

Megan: 27:45

Hmm, good question. Probably one I should have been prepared for and thought of beforehand.

Vira: 27:51

The one that you are sending, probably

Megan: 27:53

the ones that I send are super accessible of all. You should subscribe to the email and Acid newsletter because those are super accessible. You know, a lot of. I’ve been going no images for a while on my emails and I gotta say, a lot of people, a lot of emails missed the mark. I think there’s a lot of improvement to be had there and so much of it too. A lot of accessibility stuff can be really code heavy. So if you are in an ESP that you’re using a Drag and drop editor as a opposed to an email developer. There’s a lot of things that can be missed that you just don’t have control over. So like some things we can only control, we control. So I mean most e commerce emails are pretty good on the font side of things. They have. They have pretty good font size things a lot of them do miss alt text or when images are off and I see the alt text I’m still like I don’t know what this is or what you want me to do. So I do think that for brands who maybe more visually based and are not utilizing an email developer, putting your efforts into writing good alt text and making sure you have really well designed emails with the appropriate font sizes and headers and breaking up that text appropriately is really important.

Vira: 29:14

Right?

Megan: 29:15

I love it.

Alissa: 29:15

So Megan, like what’s your process in terms of like checking email accessibility for email on acid for example? We’re just using that example because we work with email on acid, not like with them but we use the platform to check all of our email. So we’re like it’s the most relevant for us I guess.

Megan: 29:31

But yeah, totally. So obviously I’m an email developer so I code them all. So I often will check things in while I’m coding in parcel to make sure it all checks out. The accessibility checker there is really great because it can call out if I’ve forgotten alt text before I even get my email into email and acid. It’s also called me out on not naming my links appropriately which is something that I need to learn more about and like Google start doing because learn things all the time about email accessibility. And I bring that up because on a screen reader say you have a link in a line of text and it’ll be like to access blah blah blah like here and then you link the word here to somebody on a screen reader that doesn’t mean anything. But what you can do is add what’s called, I believe it will be an aria label which helps screen readers and you can put a little bit more descriptive text to tell screen reader what exactly it is. So that somebody using that screen reader and then maybe they’re using a keyboard to navigate the email can then go to that link more easily to click through to get to wherever you want them to go to. But yeah, so from there then I often will put it on to email and acid and in email and acid I can check things like how the email looks zoomed in since you know people on their phones and whatnot sometimes have Zoom settings on. So to make sure the email looks good from that angle and check all the different types of colorblindness. It checks alt text for me. The other cool thing about email and acid, that is if you say, forget alt text, you can type it right in there and at the end of all your checks and whatnot, it’ll give you newly processed code with all those changes already in it, which is really cool. Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of cool features in there for developers.

Alissa: 31:19

That’s amazing.

Megan: 31:20

Yeah, yeah, it’s really cool. So, yeah, I check all that, make sure it all looks good, do all the screenshots, make sure that my email is really readable everywhere. And then it goes off to my email marketing manager to then load up into the ESP to send out.

Vira: 31:38

Wow, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s a challenge that many people don’t realize that your email looks different on different, like, yeah, different email platforms on like different devices and everything. And that’s something that businesses very often don’t chat.

Megan: 31:51

Right. Yeah.

Vira: 31:52

Megan, how would you like, summarize? We have like, a lot of, a lot of good information about the accessible email designs. How would you summarize or like, say, what are the rule of thumbs when it comes to. When it comes to like designing accessible email, like everything that we talk, like, give us a quick, quick summary.

Megan: 32:10

Summary. Okay, so your bullet points. Use your alt text.

Vira: 32:13

Bullet points. Yes. Yeah, yeah, that’s a big one.

Megan: 32:15

Use your alt text. That’s a big one. Which is I think the biggest one. Use appropriate font size and make sure your color contrast is. Those are the three majors for if you’re not using an email developer. For an email developer, my list is a little different from like the, I guess I would say front end perspective. If you’re using like a drag and drop editor and you don’t have access to that backend code.

Vira: 32:37

Right. Awesome.

Alissa: 32:38

Okay, very good. I love it. Megan, last question for you. Where can everyone find you? Like, more info about you? Like, get more insights from, you know, more about you. Where’s the best place or best place?

Megan: 32:52

So come hang with me on Twitter. I post there a lot. I love talking to people on Twitter. So that’s at Meg Bosh, I’m M E G B O S H. You’ll find me there. I also have a newsletter called It Depends, another newsletter about email marketing where I go on a lot of rants and it goes out about once a month and that’s really fun. So you can also join me there. That you can sign up on my website megbosch.com/newsletter or there’s a sign up right at my Twitter account. And yeah, there’s the majors. I’m also on LinkedIn. I’m not as active on LinkedIn. My website’s megbosch.com I don’t really update it that much. So yeah, Twitter is the main place to be.

Alissa: 33:32

I love it. I love it, love it, love it. This is perfect. And I’m like writing all these links down as well just to make sure that we have everything so we can share with everybody. So awesome.

Megan: 33:41

Yay.

Alissa: 33:41

Okay, Megan, thank you so, so much for today. Really appreciate you coming out. No one went anywhere but joining us and everything. Yeah, this is awesome. Super insightful, super fun. Yeah, I’m looking forward to people’s feedback on this. Cause I’m sure everyone really, really enjoyed it. Well, I hope you did as you’re listening to this. So guys, as always, please don’t forget to subscribe. Make sure you share this podcast with if you liked, if you loved this episode or you like what we do, make sure that you leave us a review. And also, as always, if you do leave us a review, make sure that you Visit us at flowium.com/socks. Plug in all the information and the type form there, the Typeform survey, and then you will be able to receive your own pair of flowium socks. So, yeah, make sure you do it.

Vira: 34:26

And as always, come back next Tuesday because next Tuesday we’ll be talking about some cool content ideas for email campaigns for April. So come back and thank you so much for listening. Megan, thank you so much for being with us today.

Megan: 34:39

Thanks for having me on.