#162. Unlocking Customer Service Success: Lessons from TalentPop | Podcast

Vira: 0:41

Hello everyone and welcome back to another exciting and unique episode of Email Einstein. I’m your host, Vera Sadlak, and this is not your ordinary episode today because today we’re going to have not one but two amazing guests here on our podcast today. The first guest joining us today is from the company called TalentPop. And by the way, all of the links that we will be discussing in this episode, they will be in the description box. So you can scroll right now and just go and check out their website. So he is from the company called TalentPop. His name is Ashkan Taheri. He’s the managing partner at TalentPop. And for those of you who don’t know what TalentPop is, TalentPop is basically a company that helps e-commerce businesses or e-commerce brands to turn their customer services into revenue-generating channel. Say hi, Ashkan.

Ashkan: 1:31

Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for inviting me to the show. I’m very happy to be here and excited for our conversation that we’re having today about email marketing, customer experience, and everything from A to Z.

Vira: 1:43

Awesome. Awesome. Well, I’m super excited to have you here on this podcast today. And we have all of this like juicy ecommerce questions. But before we go there, let’s play a little this or that game just like to get to know you better. So basically, I’m going to ask you like a round of really quick blitz this or that kind of questions and just like answer with the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay.

Ashkan: 2:07

Perfect. I’m ready.

Vira: 2:08

Cool.

Ashkan: 2:08

I put my seatbelt on for this.

Vira: 2:10

Yes. Let’s do this. Okay. Pumpkin spice latte or iced Iced coffee, black. Okay. SMS or email?

Ashkan: 2:21

Both.

Vira: 2:23

Okay. Customer reviews or expert recommendations?

Ashkan: 2:27

Customer reviews.

Vira: 2:28

Sorting by price or sorting by popularity when you’re, like, shopping online?

Ashkan: 2:34

Sorting by popularity.

Vira: 2:36

Shopping online or shopping offline?

Ashkan: 2:38

Shopping online all day.

Vira: 2:41

Email or live chat?

Ashkan: 2:42

Live chat.

Vira: 2:44

Okay, you might be biased, but we’re going to talk about it later today. Okay. If there was like a theme song playing every time you entered a room, what would it be?

Ashkan: 2:55

I like to move it, move it.

Vira: 2:56

That’s a good one. It’s a classic. Good, solid choice. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This was a little warm-up, and now I’m going to bombard you with all of the customer service related questions. So first things first. Tell us about TalentPop. What is TalentPop? What you guys are doing? Like, who are your customers and stuff like that?

Ashkan: 3:17

Yeah, I can definitely give you a rundown. So here at TalentPop, TalentPop is a customer service management agency specifically for e-commerce brands. So we work with a little bit over 500 of the fastest growing e-commerce brands, mostly Shopify Plus brands, but all across the sphere as long as it’s e-com focused to help really turn customer service into a revenue generating channel. So we do that in a couple of different ways. One is bringing on excellent team members to help handle support. Two is develop the customer service process in order to, you know, meet and exceed the brand’s needs. And then three is focus on that part three, which that revenue generating process there, which is why one of the questions you asked about live chat versus email, love them both. But like live chat really is one of those things that we utilize to turn the customer experience into a revenue generating channel, which is one that I really, really love as well. So that’s at a high level of what it is that we do. But prior to Prior to TalentPop, I was in the e-commerce space for a long period of time. So very familiar of the role email plays in e-commerce. And that’s kind of what ended up getting me to the point of starting TalentPop, you know, years ago.

Vira: 4:22

Awesome. Amazing. Yeah. On your, on your website, I went through some pretty cool, like, case studies and blogs and stuff like that. And in one of the blog posts, I think it was the quote from, like, HubSpot or some or something. So the HubSpot founder, he said that when he was when he first started HubSpot, a recommendation was do not go into the space if you cannot make the product that is 10 times better than everyone else. But he said that the reality is that there are like a ton of products that are good and what actually differentiate them is their customer service and how they talk to customers, how they sort of can be like helpful to their customers. So yeah, it’s a huge part of e-commerce nowadays. It’s just like your way to sort of like make yourself different in the eyes of your customers.

Ashkan: 5:14

Yeah. I think the reality is like, you know, people, you’re, if you’re, if you’re trying to be, have the largest sphere of product, like Amazon is gonna beat you. If your way of winning is, is off of like having the lowest price, Amazon is gonna beat you. Yeah. So where you’re really gonna have the opportunity to win is creating a brand that people are going to enjoy engaging with, enjoy being a part of. And I think people oftentimes lose track that like, The only true line of communication that you have with your customers on a one-to-one basis is that customer experience. And I think it’s the brands that don’t overlook that and really pay attention and zoom in on that, that allow themselves to be able to take advantage of that win and compete in their vertical against the Amazons of the world.

Vira: 6:01

Yeah. What was your most memorable customer service, like, experience you’ve had with, like, ecommerce brands?

Ashkan: 6:07

With e-commerce brands themselves, I mean, there’s just, there’s a lot of them. So Jackson, they’re actually one of our customers, but I’m a previous shopper of theirs before we started working with them. But like, they’re just a brand, they’re in the jewelry space, and they’re just a brand that goes above and beyond and just goes and, you know, they, they will stop at nothing to make sure the customer experience exceeds your expectations. So whether it’s like being outside of policy or surprise and delight things that they do, they’re always one that is willing to go above and beyond to make sure your customer experience goes unnoticed. I mean, it doesn’t go unnoticed. And it’s those experiences and that like seamless experience and lack of friction that makes you comfortable coming back again and again for more or referring friends over to the brand. Another one is Bad Birdie, another client that we work with as well too, which I love. It’s like they dedicate budget to each of their customer service reps to do like surprise and delight campaigns in order for them to be able to like if they find out, hey, I’m buying this for my boyfriend or my husband for his birthday, cool. Like send over some flowers as well with their order. And it’s like those little, like, those little, like, unsustainable wins that really creates something exceptional.

Vira: 7:18

Yeah, I actually found this number, um, on the internet. It says that according to statistics, 89% of consumers, they say that they would be more inclined to purchase something from a brand after like a good customer service experience. So apparently it’s important not just during the all time, but especially before that first conversion. Yeah.

Ashkan: 7:43

Yeah, I think it increases the retention. But then you also got to take a look at the word of mouth. And like, word of mouth is always there. It’s either helping a brand or hurting a brand, though. So like, you imagine it’s helping the brand by being able to create more opportunities and more buzz talking about, which is the win that everyone pays attention to. But people don’t really pay attention to enough if the customer experience is not as strong as it wants to be. Because if that’s what the brand is at, then it’s like you’re consistently dealing with headwind. You have the wind coming directly at you from the negative word of mouth that’s now going around the block about your customer journeys. And now instead of it propelling you forward, you actually have this conflict that might be pushing you forward due to an experience or a shipping delay or not handling a request the way it needed to, or maybe a little bit sketchy of a, you know, a subscription program that was not handled the way it needed to be. I think brands that just clean that up will be able to optimize for where it needs to be optimized and not deal with like the the negative side of a poor customer experience as well.

Vira: 8:45

Right. Yeah. And that timely, good quality customer service is kind of expected right now with the competition that we have in the industry. But my next question will be more about who is your services for? So we have a lot of businesses that we work that are medium-sized businesses or they’re just starting the brand or growing the brand. So when business expands, expands and your customer service team definitely plays a big role in that part of the expansion, directly interacting with the customer. Building positive relationship with the customer is everything. Not that it doesn’t matter when you’re a big brand, but I mean, sometimes at the beginning it’s super important with handling inquiries and concerns and stuff like that. And to scale up most effectively, like the question arises, does it make sense to build that like internal team of customer support team or does it make sense to sort of like outsource the services? So what are your thoughts on that? Who should be looking into like outsourcing and who should be looking into like building a dedicated team? Totally.

Ashkan: 9:59

Yeah, I think our customer base here at TalentPop, it’s really wide. It’s everything from the super small SMB, we’re launching our business next week and we need to have our team prepared. all the way down to the more enterprise. I have 20 customer service reps on my team and I need to bring on 10 more reps at this point. So it’s kind of really, really seriously varies. So on the SMB side of things, you could imagine like I’m the founder, I am handling email, I’m handling ordering product, I am handling advertising, and I’m just trying to make things work out here at this point. And the last thing I could be able to do is actually be able to scale that customer experience on my end and handle the customers the best experience they ultimately can. With that being said, that’s where like a lot of the customers come inbound to us where it’s like, I’m doing a million different things, I just need to get this handled properly.

Vira: 10:47

Mm-hmm.

Ashkan: 10:48

Which is super, super important for those, um, small businesses that are out there. And then they’re left with a couple of different choices now. Do I want to, one, go on Upwork, hire someone internally myself, 2, um, hire someone domestically, or 3, go with an agency?

Vira: 11:03

Mm-hmm.

Ashkan: 11:03

And that’s kind of like the decision-making pattern that people have access to. Um, and what I break down is as follows. Step 1, option A, is the, you know, Upwork model of the world. And there’s pros and cons. The pros to it is cost. Cost is gonna be significantly the most affordable option there. But what’s— where the challenge is going to oftentimes lie is you are now the person that needs to go through the interviews, hire the team member, build out training material that you probably don’t existingly have at this point right now.

Vira: 11:33

Mm-hmm.

Ashkan: 11:34

And then get this team member trained up on some policies that are not quite built up at this point. So just being able to like, now it becomes another job in order for you to get there. And that’s time that you don’t have. On top of that, you’re often probably going to be finding yourself being one of those people that need to— that are going to end up like going through maybe 5 interviews and hiring one of the first 5 people that you actually interview to have come on board the team. And oftentimes going through 5 interviews is not necessarily the best way to bring on your first full-time hire when it comes to someone offshore like that. The second thing is that more like, I’m going to hire someone, they’re local, I’m going to hire them over here. And now the pro and con there is like one, they’re domestic, they’re in your office, there’s like a net potential, like potential win that could be there. But the cons that you run into is one, two things. One is the cost level of things, obviously, domestic customer support is going to be quite expensive. And then more importantly, domestic churn and customer support is closer to like 60 to 65% annually. So it becomes a little bit of a revolving door, because there might not be as many opportunities for growth in a small business when it comes to customer support as other roles, which kind of creates that other level of con. On top of that, you’re interviewing. On top of that, you’re training, which you might not have resources for. And then the third option, which is where brands come over to us for, is, is like the agency model. And the idea there is our pricing is very, very similar to an Upwork model. But what ends up happening is you’re bringing on someone that’s going to be able to conduct over 100 interviews on your behalf for you. We interview about 1,100 people a week, every single week. From there, only 3% actually pass to work with a brand. So that comprehensive amount of vetting you’re on absolute rock stars for this role. From there, what ends up happening is we go and build out your training material and documentation for the brand based off their downloading their previously closed tickets. So we download closed tickets, build out training material for the brand, get it approved by the brand, and we actually take care of assisting the team members with getting onboarded and learning about the brand. And then we conduct weekly reporting just to make sure on a QA level everything is being handled properly. So it becomes that like perfect solution where it’s still on the affordable side of things, similar to like a freelance model. But on top of that, you get the full customer service team. And what’s great too is it’s all, you know, because you can start part-time at just 20 hours a week and scale up to full-time to multiple full-time team members as a brand grows, which makes it really scalable for, like I said, the small business that is launching, owners handling all these other channels versus the enterprise brand, which is like, hey, we have 15 customer service reps on our end. we need to bring on 5 more because we’re heading into Black Friday. We’ve got your back.

Vira: 14:41

Awesome. So just like to sum up everything that you’ve said, the shortcomings of this like model when you’re building the team, like from inside of your company is basically like sourcing, training, managing and establishing that like infrastructure to keep people in the company and to like give them the opportunity to grow and stuff like that. But, and that’s understandable, but what about that like aspect of like company’s culture very often, and that’s just like my understanding. The third-party teams, they will not be as familiar with your company’s like culture, with the product itself, even compared to say in-house team would be. Do you think this is a challenge? And like, if yes, what’s like, what’s the proper way to handle it?

Ashkan: 15:31

Totally. Yeah, you’re exactly right. Culture is super, super important. You want the people that are representing the brand to be, that are on that front line to be so invested, so bought into the organization. On the agency side of things, there’s 2 types of agencies that exist. One is the dedicated customer service model, and the other one is the shared customer service model. We are purely and 100% on the dedicated customer service model, which means if I bring Sarah, Sarah is gonna be representing customer support on behalf of your brand. Sarah’s with you day 1 to hopefully day 365. Sarah is only working with you and your brand. So now it’s just like any of your other employees that you have on board. Sarah is only dedicated to learning about your brand, learning about your policies, learning about your brand voice, learning about your brand tone. And all of that is configured into our recruitment process. So our recruitment team goes in and creates that perfect match and represents them there. On that shared model, that’s when you run into issues where maybe it’s 5 reps working across 10 brands. No one knows the policies, no one knows the product. That’s where you can run into some of those common stigmas about outsourcing and different things like that. But we’re pretty much just taking care of that recruitment process and the training process on a dedicated basis on behalf of each brand.

Vira: 16:40

I see, I see. What about like the tech stack? Like a lot of ecommerce businesses, they have like custom-built tech stacks with like different like unique integrations and stuff like that. How do you guys ensure that your agents are like, know how to use it or like trained to use my specific software that I’m using, say, for my business?

Ashkan: 17:50

Great question. So on our end of things, what we do is first things first, we look for agents that have experience in the space. So all of our agents have an average of 4 years of CX experience with 2 of those years in the e-commerce space. So they know the world we’re in. On top of that, though, everyone does have this variety of platforms and technology, the majority do fit under like a standard process, which is like most brands are on Shopify, Shopify Plus, which is great. There is a little bit of Magento, BigCommerce that we work with as well. You see in this, in this e-com ecosystem, but most Shopify. And then most of them have a help desk or should probably consider getting on one as you continue to grow. A lot of them on like Gorgias or maybe Zendesk or different platforms like that. Gorgias is our number one partner that we work with. Love those guys. I’d probably say 300, 400 of the brands we work with are also on Gorgias as well. Really strong tool for those that are looking for a help desk. But what we do on our end of things is we front-load some of that training. So we have recorded trainual doc— trainual training. They’re like 30 modules each on Shopify training, on customer service training, on Gorgias training, on Zendesk training. So when a brand comes into us, we’ll build out brand-specific training customized for them.

Vira: 18:59

Mm-hmm.

Ashkan: 19:00

But after they go through that, they’ll go through our technology-specific training. So if the brand’s on Shopify and Gorgias, They’ll go through our Shopify customer service and Gorgias training to really get them caught up on that technology stack there. And then just like most companies, we use for all of our live training that we do with the brand, and we highly recommend this for everyone, get on, get some sort of recording platform. We use Fathom. Fathom is really, really good. It records all of our calls, transcribes them. When it comes to some of the most more nuanced tools, or maybe it’s like how we’re gonna handle, you know, our reviews that come in from Okendo, for instance. Cool.

Vira: 19:33

Mm-hmm.

Ashkan: 19:33

We’re gonna manage that by, Following this, this following process, we’ll record that process A to Z, go over it, and then we’ll database that in a client’s client folder. So the agent needs to refer back to that in the future. They’ll just watch that recording and they’ll go directly back to the spot where we learn that process. And that goes to any different piece of technology. Every 3PL is a little bit different. They have a different platform in place. We’ll always record that for the agent to refer back to in the future, making it really easy for them to you know get on board and conduct that task.

Vira: 20:02

I see. I see. And you kind of like briefly touched on that already, but a lot of people, they argue that outsourcing customer service duties, it can actually like weaken that link between the brand and the customer, like weaken that like relationship between the brand and the customer. Do you have any like case studies that prove otherwise, or do you have any case studies that shows how basically you can turn customer service into like a revenue generating channel?

Ashkan: 20:35

Yeah. So if you take a look at our website, we have a tremendous amount of case studies and success stories that are documented on there that you’d be able to look into, but specifically about like the cultural side of things and great customer experience. They’ll talk about like more of the revenue generating channel side of things. As long as these team members are really integrated with the brand, again, it’s a dedicated model. So there really is less of a difference between a remote employee versus a remote employee that we have on board, except we add structure to the situation. They’re still on Slack with the brand every single day for any escalations, questions. We advise them to get on team meetings with the brand whenever there’s new launches, host a meeting, go over the new product launch that you guys have coming out with the team. Some of our best customers will like send them over swag, send them over free product, like allow them to fall in love with the brand specifically. It just creates that deeper sense of like culture where people want to, like, you know, again, I’m gonna go back to Jackson jewelry space. Like, all their agents get jewelry, you know, they’re wearing it during their shift, they’re wearing it while working. Like, when someone says, hey, how’s the quality? They look at their neck and they’re like, this quality is really, really good. You know what I mean? And it’s like, and by doing little things like that, we try to eliminate the barrier between hiring yourself as well as an offshore outsourced model. Like, we’re there to be that, like, interim where we do all the heavy lifting for you. But you’re still getting that same like gold standard experience. Now, when it comes to revenue generating channel, we’re spending a ton of effort on that as of right now, unlocking the code. And we have some massive things we’re working on right now. But some of the big easy playbooks that a brand could take advantage of are like, you know, there’s a lot of them, but one of them is just like activating live chat on site. We did a case study of Q4 of last year of all of our customers that were on live chat. What was the, like, what was the conversion rate of the people that engaged with the live chat versus didn’t? And what we found was the people that did not engage with the live chat had a 1.9% average conversion rate on site across all of the brands. Not standard for the e-com space. Of the cohort of people that engaged with the live chat widget, the conversion rate was 7.9%.

Vira: 22:40

Interesting.

Ashkan: 22:42

So over 4 times higher of that cohort that engaged the live chat. Obviously, you’re not gonna get everyone to engage the live chat. The name of the game is how do I get more and more people to engage with live chat to take advantage of that conversion rate boost? And from there, it’s little things like utilizing Gorgias’ live chat campaigns, having the widget pop up on various pages with specific messaging. Those are big opportunities. Another massive opportunity that we’re rolling out right now is just the simple objective of calling abandoned carts immediately when the cart gets abandoned.

Vira: 23:10

Mm-hmm.

Ashkan: 23:11

Obviously, right now, email, it’s going, it goes really well. We are winning a tremendous amount. From abandoned cart win back, SMS was a second thing to follow through. We’re sending some SMS layering that in massive wins happening from SMS being layered in as a second channel for abandoned cart. The third channel now is going to be what happens with the moment that you abandon cart. You actually get a phone call from a live agent saying, “Hey Ashkin, you know you I saw that you ordered a you were looking at the size large black t-shirts and I know you didn’t order. Do you have any questions about the product?” And right there we could have a dialogue. You’re forcing an answer out of me for us to have a conversation, and then you can send over a link with a promo code directly afterwards for you to attribute that sale to revenue. And what’s really good is a lot of these help desks like Gorges actually have the attribution built in for you to track those revenue numbers from calling those abandoned carts. And little things like incentivizing your reps with 1% of the revenue from all closed transactions that were attributed to the phone call creates a massive opportunity for you to increase conversion rate very, very heavily on site, but to keep them incentivized to go and do so.

Vira: 24:22

Yeah, I’m, I’m still on the edge about this sort of like strategy as a marketer. I love it. As a customer, it feels a little bit intrusive, don’t you? Don’t you think?

Ashkan: 24:34

Yeah. I mean, how did we all feel 3, 4 years ago? I remember being at a Klaviyo event in Boston. It was their first event and I was talking to my accountant.

Vira: 24:41

I’ve been there too. I’ve been there too.

Ashkan: 24:44

SMS, like, when are you guys gonna launch SMS? My account manager said, never, we are never gonna launch SMS. It’s too intrusive. And look at us now. Right. Everyone is just used to it. SMS is a part of the way that we market it this way along with email. And I foresee this being that next standard. I mean, if you think of the sales industry in general, it’s all about speed to lead. When a lead comes in, how do we call them as fast as possible and have that conversation? This is a very, very similar concept. And it’s about calling in with a concierge attitude. Less than a sales attitude.

Vira: 25:14

Interesting. Yeah, I want to test it out. I’ve never experienced it myself as a customer yet, so I’m just like curious how, how that would feel.

Ashkan: 25:23

You know, we’re testing it right now when actually developing cases for a handful of our clients before we launch it publicly for all of our customers as a service. But the results are absolutely insane. The negative sentiment is not there. Like we kind of, we assume the same things. Like, dude, this is a little bit intrusive. But again, just coming in from that concierge attitude versus a, hey, why didn’t you buy this attitude is a very, very different thing.

Vira: 25:45

Right. Interesting. Well, that’s definitely a big topic. I want to, I want to see the results of your case studies. I’m like really curious to, to see what you guys will learn. Definitely a big topic. Another big topic in the industry, and I’m really curious to hear your opinion here, is AI. AI is everywhere. The market for AI is expected to grow to almost like $2 trillion US dollars by the year 2030. And AI in e-commerce customer service has become definitely a focus for many brands. What’s your take on that? Do you think there is a possibility of like AI replacing human agents completely? What’s your take on that?

Ashkan: 26:31

Yeah, I’ll talk about where we are now and then where the future could potentially be. So yes, this topic comes up a lot. It’s never been coming up as frequently as it is today, which is great. Right. And like, we at TopUp, we invest in a tremendous amount of AI, smart learning, machine learning. We have it built into a lot of our processes from like helping make our team more efficient all the way down to like that interview process. We utilize our own machine learning algorithm to like grade applications based off what our assumption of their success is gonna be. So we invest in it super, super heavily. Absolutely. As of right now, the way that we, as well as some of our largest, most enterprise clients, are utilizing AI is through what we consider an agent assist tool.

Vira: 27:12

Mm-hmm.

Ashkan: 27:13

So I’ll give you an example. True Classic, they’re one of the biggest brands in this e-com space right now. We help them with handling customer support. We utilize a decent amount of AI with what it is that they do. But right now, AI is there to be formed as an agent assist tool where it’ll present it thinks the response is to be handled to answer this inquiry for a customer service rep. And that rep will do one of two things. One, click send, send it out, or two, create modifications for it. Right now, the way the AI is built out is we can’t let it run rampant by itself just because the opportunity for false positives is still there. Meaning, for an example, let’s say that we send an email, they send an email back to us and they say, hey, Hey, where is my order at? It’s been 3 weeks. What’s going on? You said 3-day shipping. I want to cancel my order. Well, the way most of these rules engines/AI tools are working is the sentiment of that ticket is, where’s my order? And when the sentiment of the ticket is, where’s my order? A help desk like Gorgias or any other help desk is going to say, hi, Ashkan, thank you so much for reaching out. Your order is your order number so-and-so and so-and-so has been shipped. Below is your tracking please let me know if you have any questions. And that, unfortunately, is a very poor customer experience.

Vira: 28:29

Mm-hmm.

Ashkan: 28:30

So right now, due to the amount of false positives in the space, we are using that as an assist tool. It’ll assist that— it’ll pass that as the response to the agent, and the agent will then take a look at that and say, hey, this is a little bit funny, let’s go and make the modifications to be able to provide that best level of customer experience. So we are using these rules engines and things like that to be able to air traffic control tickets a little bit more effectively. So we’ll Like in the example of Gorgias, we’ll use the automation engine to auto-tag tickets, which will not answer tickets, but will generate them into customized views. So now as a brand, all of your return requests are in this view, all your exchange requests are in this view, all of your urgent requests are here, all of your escalations are here to make it so your— our team is more and more efficient. Mm-hmm. It becomes an efficiency play inside the help desk to make it so maybe instead of answering 50 tickets a day, we can now answer 80 tickets a day, 100 tickets a day. based off these increases in efficiency, which is the way that we are looking at utilizing AI at this point right now.

Vira: 29:28

So what you’re saying, you’re just like looking at it as a helpful tool to assist your agents, but you are not seeing it as the threat for the AI to fully replace human agents in the future?

Ashkan: 29:43

I think it will not get to the point of, at least to the point where right now, replacing the human beings behind it, but maybe a team of 10 can now I see, I see what you’re saying. Instead of a team of 20, it can now maybe be a team of 12. You know what I mean? We become much more efficient based off of the enablement that these tools give us, but it’s not necessarily handling all of the inquiries at this point that we are at as of right now.

Vira: 30:09

Amazing. Well, we’ll see what Gorgias has to say about it as well. I’m curious to see what’s their point of view on that. Thank you so much for coming to our episode, Ashkan. If people want to learn more about what you do or if they want to try your service, where should they go?

Ashkan: 30:27

Yeah, they can definitely go to www.talentpop.co, book a demo with one of our team members. They’ll look through your customer service process, give you an audit of where you guys stand and see if we could be a good fit. So definitely check us out there.

Vira: 30:40

Amazing. Thank you so much, guys. Stay tuned for the part 2 of this episode where we will be talking to Gorgias to see what’s their take on AI and e-commerce customer So yay or nay? Thank you so much, Ashkan. It was a pleasure talking to you.

Ashkan: 30:59

Thank you for having me.

Vira: 31:00

Thank you.

Ashkan: 31:01

Bye-bye.

Vira: 31:01

Take care. Bye.